Total Loss - Insurance Tips?

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

Well, they said their first offer was based upon "mileage unknown", and an assumed mileage of 150k. With miles being 170k, they deducted $1k from the value. They added back in around $500 for new battery and tires.

So, current offer is $500 less than initial offer.

I am going to pull some comps and submit. They gave me exactly $0 for everything else I did.

Ahhhh the insurance industry. Gotta love it (read sarcastically).

I have SF as well, and my agent has always been great, but haven't had to file a claim with her yet. Only company I've dealt with and had to file with was USAA... and they were great, but they are expensive.

[upallnight]

On the subject of insurance, has anyone here have an insurance policy that you pay base on the mileage you drive per month? I'm thinking of switch to one because of the fleet of cars that I own and the policy is base on the fact that you do not drive all the cars at one time. You paid a monthly fee per car plus anywhere between 1-10 cents per mile. The rate per miles is base on the type of car that is being driven. So for any of my Lotus the rate per mile will be 6 cents whereas the rate for the X5 will be 2.9 cents per miles. According to the quote that I received my annual fee will be $350.00 which is $700 less than what I am paying now for the entire fleet for the year.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

Well, they said their first offer was based upon "mileage unknown", and an assumed mileage of 150k. With miles being 170k, they deducted $1k from the value. They added back in around $500 for new battery and tires.

So, current offer is $500 less than initial offer.

I am going to pull some comps and submit. They gave me exactly $0 for everything else I did.

Sounds reasonable to me.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Ahhhh the insurance industry. Gotta love it (read sarcastically).

Sounds like the insurance company is being reasonable to me. Not sure why you feel they're being unreasonable.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

Sounds like the insurance company is being reasonable to me. Not sure why you feel they're being unreasonable.

True, I did jump the gun a bit (as did you)... ylwjacket did not say what the actual offer was. Will withhold actual judgement until we know (if jlwjacket posts it) the actual offer.

But, you and I both know, that on the private market a vehicle with maintenance documentation (especially recent) is worth more.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

True, I did jump the gun a bit (as did you)... ylwjacket did not say what the actual offer was. Will withhold actual judgement until we know (if jlwjacket posts it) the actual offer.

No, I did not jump the gun. My comments were not about the offer itself but rather your comment the insurance company was being less than reasonable by dropping their second offer by $1,000.

Originally Posted by crystalworks

But, you and I both know, that on the private market a vehicle with maintenance documentation (especially recent) is worth more.

From a financial point of view they have absolutely zero value to me. Maintenance records show someone has been maintaining their vehicle but they do not add cash value to the price. I will consider them in my decision as to if I want to buy a vehicle or not.

Now this is not to say that performing proper maintenance doesn't have value to me. However, as stated in an earlier post, it comes in the form of a higher asking price. I'm sure we're all aware that resources such as KBB have different condition ratings for vehicles. In the case of KBB there are four: Fair, Good, Very Good, and Excellent. Maintenance records or, more appropriately, maintenance itself might qualify the vehicle for excellent condition instead of merely very good condition. Therefore the value of the vehicle would be higher.

In fact I just performed a comparison of a 150K mile 2003 X5 3.0 with standard equipment (not sure what the OPs vehicle is so I just picked one at random). The very good private party value is $3,699 and the excellent private party value is $3,992 for a difference of $293. If I had just sunk $800 into the vehicle to keep it in the excellent condition category then I've just lost money.

This is exactly what is happening to the OP. He put money into the vehicle because he expected to use the vehicle for many years to come. Thus he was taking proper care of it. Unfortunately that's where the value of spending the money would have come from...using the vehicle for many years. To immediately turn around and sell it (a forced sale due to the accident but that's essentially what he's doing) a few months later will not recover what he put into it.

There seems to be a common misconception that he should receive the excellent value price for the vehicle plus additional money that was spent to bring it up to that condition. One cannot have it both ways. I'm surprised they insurance company is giving him $500 for a new battery. If I were considering the purchase of a vehicle which required a new battery then I would be deducting the cost to replace it from the price of the vehicle (assuming it had not already been done so in the asking price).

It sucks...I've been there but such is life. The good thing, as has been said by most everyone who has commented in this thread, is everyone is OK. That's something money cannot buy.

[TiAgX5]

The first step in establishing value would be an honest assessment of overall vehicle condition pre-accident.

These category definitions:

• Excellent condition means that the vehicle looks new, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. This vehicle has never had any paint or body work and is free of rust. The vehicle has a clean Title History and will pass a smog and safety inspection. The engine compartment is clean, with no fluid leaks and is free of any wear or visible defects. The vehicle also has complete and verifiable service records. Less than 5 percent of all used vehicles fall into this category.
• Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.
• Fair condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.
• Poor condition means that the vehicle has severe mechanical and/or cosmetic defects and is in poor running condition. The vehicle may have problems that cannot be readily fixed such as a damaged frame or a rusted-through body. A vehicle with a branded title (salvage, flood, etc.) or unsubstantiated mileage is considered "poor." A vehicle in poor condition may require an independent appraisal to determine its value.

A bunch of current repair bills does not qualify a vehicle for an "excellent" condition rating.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

No, I did not jump the gun. My comments were not about the offer itself but rather your comment the insurance company was being less than reasonable by dropping their second offer by $1,000.


From a financial point of view they have absolutely zero value to me. Maintenance records show someone has been maintaining their vehicle but they do not add cash value to the price. I will consider them in my decision as to if I want to buy a vehicle or not.

Now this is not to say that performing proper maintenance doesn't have value to me. However, as stated in an earlier post, it comes in the form of a higher asking price. I'm sure we're all aware that resources such as KBB have different condition ratings for vehicles. In the case of KBB there are four: Fair, Good, Very Good, and Excellent. Maintenance records or, more appropriately, maintenance itself might qualify the vehicle for excellent condition instead of merely very good condition. Therefore the value of the vehicle would be higher.

In fact I just performed a comparison of a 150K mile 2003 X5 3.0 with standard equipment (not sure what the OPs vehicle is so I just picked one at random). The very good private party value is $3,699 and the excellent private party value is $3,992 for a difference of $293. If I had just sunk $800 into the vehicle to keep it in the excellent condition category then I've just lost money.

This is exactly what is happening to the OP. He put money into the vehicle because he expected to use the vehicle for many years to come. Thus he was taking proper care of it. Unfortunately that's where the value of spending the money would have come from...using the vehicle for many years. To immediately turn around and sell it (a forced sale due to the accident but that's essentially what he's doing) a few months later will not recover what he put into it.

There seems to be a common misconception that he should receive the excellent value price for the vehicle plus additional money that was spent to bring it up to that condition. One cannot have it both ways. I'm surprised they insurance company is giving him $500 for a new battery. If I were considering the purchase of a vehicle which required a new battery then I would be deducting the cost to replace it from the price of the vehicle (assuming it had not already been done so in the asking price).

It sucks...I've been there but such is life. The good thing, as has been said by most everyone who has commented in this thread, is everyone is OK. That's something money cannot buy.

We disagree fundamentally. Which is fine. You would not buy a vehicle from me. As a seller, and a buyer, I will ask more, and I have paid more, for a vehicle which has had maintenance and repairs done to it.

Until I know the offer, I was jumping the gun on SF's reason-ability. I'm betting though, that like you, they are offering based on NADA and KBB type value systems. Those are wholly inaccurate as to the market value of enthusiast type vehicles.

Insurance companies' entire business model is to pay out as little as possible to as few people as possible. That's just how it works. If you let them, they will give you as little as possible. I hope jlwjacket is able to negotiate for a higher price as he will have to replace the vehicle, which is what insurance is supposed to be for. He won't find that same condition vehicle for $3900 (the excellent value you quoted) so insurance is falling short of it's purpose IMO if the offer is less than $5000ish.

Agreed on the value of everyone being okay after the accident. Obviously the vehicle did its job and that is the most important thing.

[X53Jay4.8is]

Originally Posted by upallnight

On the subject of insurance, has anyone here have an insurance policy that you pay base on the mileage you drive per month? I'm thinking of switch to one because of the fleet of cars that I own and the policy is base on the fact that you do not drive all the cars at one time. You paid a monthly fee per car plus anywhere between 1-10 cents per mile. The rate per miles is base on the type of car that is being driven. So for any of my Lotus the rate per mile will be 6 cents whereas the rate for the X5 will be 2.9 cents per miles. According to the quote that I received my annual fee will be $350.00 which is $700 less than what I am paying now for the entire fleet for the year.

Are your Lotus vehicles 20 years or older? I was looking at your signature of vehicles and those 1970 Lotus should be under a classic car policy o better capture their worth vs a traditional insurance policy.

[X53Jay4.8is]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

True, I did jump the gun a bit (as did you)... ylwjacket did not say what the actual offer was. Will withhold actual judgement until we know (if jlwjacket posts it) the actual offer.

But, you and I both know, that on the private market a vehicle with maintenance documentation (especially recent) is worth more.

Yeah unfortunately insurance company's do not take maintenance into the account of value on a vehicle. Now aesthetic condition and mileage of the vehicle weighs in. For example an 2006 X5 with 60k miles with some dings on it, with no maintenance will still pull in more money than a 2006 X5 with 110K miles with pristine body/interior and preventive and regular maintenance records.