Total Loss - Insurance Tips?

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

We disagree fundamentally. Which is fine. You would not buy a vehicle from me. As a seller, and a buyer, I will ask more, and I have paid more, for a vehicle which has had maintenance and repairs done to it.

Why do you think I would not purchase a vehicle from you? I think it is completely reasonable to ask more for a vehicle which is in above average condition. But it's unreasonable to ask more for a vehicle in above average condition and also expect me to pay extra for the work that was performed to bring it up to the above average condition.

The OP is claiming that his vehicle was in excellent condition and therefore is setting his expectation of the insurance payout according to said condition. Then he's expecting, at least partially, them to pay for the work he did to bring it up to that condition. He can't have it both ways. The compensation he'll receive for the work he put into it will be in a higher payout price for the vehicle. Unfortunately it will not be dollar for dollar.

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Until I know the offer, I was jumping the gun on SF's reason-ability. I'm betting though, that like you, they are offering based on NADA and KBB type value systems. Those are wholly inaccurate as to the market value of enthusiast type vehicles.

That may be one way of valuing the vehicle. However, in my two instances, they used comparable vehicles for sale on the used market. Which resulted in a more than acceptable payment for my losses. I wouldn't be surprised if the insurance company is doing the same in this instance.

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Insurance companies' entire business model is to pay out as little as possible to as few people as possible. That's just how it works. If you let them, they will give you as little as possible. I hope jlwjacket is able to negotiate for a higher price as he will have to replace the vehicle, which is what insurance is supposed to be for. He won't find that same condition vehicle for $3900 (the excellent value you quoted) so insurance is falling short of it's purpose IMO if the offer is less than $5000ish.

Of course they'll pay as little as possible. Don't you? having said that insurance isn't supposed to pay you for a replacement vehicle (unless you specifically buy coverage to that effect or they happen to offer it as part of your policy...either of which come with restrictions) but rather pay you fair market value for your vehicle.

I had a prime example of this. I purchased a 1999 328i brand new in December of 1998. I sold that car in August 2010 with slightly less than 35K miles on the clock. That car was in, literally, brand new condition. It was highly unlikely anyone would find that age of a car with such low miles and in the brand new condition it was in. However if it were totaled I would have received around $10K for it. Despite the fact the vehicle was in brand new condition the fact was it wasn't worth more than $10K (the price I sold it for). There was no way the insurance company would have given me 75% of the original purchase price for that car.

[StephenVA]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

Why do you think I would not purchase a vehicle from you? I think it is completely reasonable to ask more for a vehicle which is in above average condition. But it's unreasonable to ask more for a vehicle in above average condition and also expect me to pay extra for the work that was performed to bring it up to the above average condition.

The OP is claiming that his vehicle was in excellent condition and therefore is setting his expectation of the insurance payout according to said condition. Then he's expecting, at least partially, them to pay for the work he did to bring it up to that condition. He can't have it both ways. The compensation he'll receive for the work he put into it will be in a higher payout price for the vehicle. Unfortunately it will not be dollar for dollar.



That may be one way of valuing the vehicle. However, in my two instances, they used comparable vehicles for sale on the used market. Which resulted in a more than acceptable payment for my losses. I wouldn't be surprised if the insurance company is doing the same in this instance.


Of course they'll pay as little as possible. Don't you? having said that insurance isn't supposed to pay you for a replacement vehicle (unless you specifically buy coverage to that effect or they happen to offer it as part of your policy...either of which come with restrictions) but rather pay you fair market value for your vehicle.

I had a prime example of this. I purchased a 1999 328i brand new in December of 1998. I sold that car in August 2010 with slightly less than 35K miles on the clock. That car was in, literally, brand new condition. It was highly unlikely anyone would find that age of a car with such low miles and in the brand new condition it was in. However if it were totaled I would have received around $10K for it. Despite the fact the vehicle was in brand new condition the fact was it wasn't worth more than $10K (the price I sold it for). There was no way the insurance company would have given me 75% of the original purchase price for that car.

You are completely correct on this line of insurance thought. Fair market value is all that drives this result. Care, maintenance, updates, super clean may mean 5-10% uptick, Rarity of models owned by enthusiasts...hardly. The bulk on the market drives value. Everything else are outliers, something that interest to us but not to the insurance industry, outside of collector market insurers.

[TiAgX5]

Being the owner of an "excellent condition" 200k E53 (never driven off-road, in snow, slush, wet salted roads), I doubt we are talking a pristine vehicle in this thread.

I would never allow......"My youngest daughter went camping in the mountains with a group of about 30 folks. They drove to the top of the mountain to watch the sunrise, and were coming back down, when the back fishtailed on a dirt/gravel road. As she tried to recover it, it hit a roadside drainage ditch, and the car rolled over. It landed wheels down.....There were 5 people on board" with my BMW.

This is what the underside/body (no bodywork/respray) of a 200k mile, excellent condition E53 looks like....

[StephenVA]

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

Being the owner of an "excellent condition" 200k E53 (never driven off-road, in snow, slush, wet salted roads), I doubt we are talking a pristine vehicle in this thread.

I would never allow......"My youngest daughter went camping in the mountains with a group of about 30 folks. They drove to the top of the mountain to watch the sunrise, and were coming back down, when the back fishtailed on a dirt/gravel road. As she tried to recover it, it hit a roadside drainage ditch, and the car rolled over. It landed wheels down.....There were 5 people on board" with my BMW.

This is what the underside of a 200k mile, excellent condition E53 looks like....

I had a feeling this would come back up.......

[ylwjacket]

The Conclusion:

So, I agreed to a settlement yesterday, and the check is in the mail. I am not sure if I want to post actual dollars - maybe I'll wait until after I have the actual check to do that.

In the end, the settlement is fair, and I can replace the vehicle with it.

Here are a couple of details:
- 2005, 170k miles, loaded (panorama, cold weather, luxury etc)
- condition was pretty good before the wreck, with the aforementioned $3k+ in repairs/maint. This was to fix oil leaks, replace entire cooling system, power steering pump, front cv's, bushing, ball joints, new tires, new battery, new alternator, and a few other things.

Process:
- first offer was OK, but I wanted to account for all of the work I'd done. So, I submitted receipts. I was hoping for a condition upgrade to recognize it (everything was based on Good in the 1st estimate).

- after submitting receipts, offer dropped by $400. they deducted $1k for mileage (original was based on assumed of 150k), and added back $600 for battery and tires

- I started to look for comps, and came across some of the same ones used in their evaluation report. However, the listing prices I found, on the exact vehicles, was in 2 cases about $2000-2500 higher than what they had used. Their value was based on 4 comps, averaged.

- they revised their estimate based on the current listing prices, which increase the offer by $1k, or about $600 more than 1st estimate.

- I had one more conversation relative to a few more options that they had not recognized. They said they could not do anything with those, but in recognition of the repairs/receipts, would upgrade the condition to "very well maintained" from "good", which added $400.

So, the crash was about 3 weeks ago now. I will have a check next week for an amount that I think is very fair, and with which I can replace the car. The final settlement is about $1k more than the initial.

I received, in all, a $1k deduction for mileage, a $1k increase for comp listing price errors, $600 for tires/battery being new, and $400 for a condition upgrade due to receipts. So, a total of about $1k in recognition of the parts I had done, though tires and battery were really the only ones that had value in their view.

So, I feel good about where we ended up.

One thing I will say - any proposed increases in value had to be documented on my end. They were not going to give anything for free.

Also, everyone that I spoke with during the entire process at State Farm was courteous and professional.

So, my plan now is to reimburse myself for part (about half) of the repair costs, and give my daughter a max contribution that I will make to the replacement vehicle. If that is not enough, she will have to contribute. She has $2k saved that she is willing to spend for another car, so her contribution added to mine should be enough.

BTW - not sure where you guys are from, but there are no X5's available around here for $3900.

[upallnight]

Average mileage for a car is about 15,000 miles. So the initial offer was for a car with 150,000 miles. The OP had over 170,000 miles so that is more than the average miles, that is why the insurance deducted $1000 for the mileage. So that 20,000 extra miles is basically another year plus of use on the car. Even though the OP may have replaced a lot of parts on the X, there are a lot of parts that didn't get replace and with that kind of mileage they will need replacing soon.

[ylwjacket]

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

Being the owner of an "excellent condition" 200k E53 (never driven off-road, in snow, slush, wet salted roads), I doubt we are talking a pristine vehicle in this thread.

I would never allow......"My youngest daughter went camping in the mountains with a group of about 30 folks. They drove to the top of the mountain to watch the sunrise, and were coming back down, when the back fishtailed on a dirt/gravel road. As she tried to recover it, it hit a roadside drainage ditch, and the car rolled over. It landed wheels down.....There were 5 people on board" with my BMW.

This is what the underside/body (no bodywork/respray) of a 200k mile, excellent condition E53 looks like....

This vehicle was mine to start with, then went to my oldest her last year of HS, and in college. It then went to the middle for 2 yrs of college. I just bought her a Jeep Liberty, and gave this car to the youngest for college.

It's not, nor was it, a show vehicle. But, it was a solid, safe car that got 3 kids through college.

I think it did the job admirably, and to be honest, I'm a bit sad that it's gone.

[StephenVA]

Congrats!

The replacement costs will be higher as more and more of the good ones fall victim to "events". High mileage ones are already at fully depreciated value and are posted all over AutoTrader in the $5-12K range. Buyer beware of course.

[ylwjacket]

Originally Posted by StephenVA

Congrats!

The replacement costs will be higher as more and more of the good ones fall victim to "events". High mileage ones are already at fully depreciated value and are posted all over AutoTrader in the $5-12K range. Buyer beware of course.

Thanks. My daughter and I have discussed the fact that the search for a replacement may take some time, as we are going to evaluate them carefully.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

This vehicle was mine to start with, then went to my oldest her last year of HS, and in college. It then went to the middle for 2 yrs of college. I just bought her a Jeep Liberty, and gave this car to the youngest for college.

It's not, nor was it, a show vehicle. But, it was a solid, safe car that got 3 kids through college.

I think it did the job admirably, and to be honest, I'm a bit sad that it's gone.

Understand it was a good vehicle and will be missed.

Just posting condition pics that those with pristine Xs need to present to insurance co (of their vehicle) at time of total loss.