3.0 Diesel Judder & Smoke on start up only.

[Lamby]

Hi Everyone, sorry I know there are a ton of posts on the 3.0 diesel smoking but none seem to match what I am experiencing.

Okay quick facts on start up

• Smoke is BLUE and heavy, the smoke is pretty thick.
• Only lasts 30 secs max.
• Clean and clear afterwards.
• Engine is lumpy and huddering, feels like its missing or a cylinder or two is out.
• Again this lasts for 30 secs max. Then the car settles down.
• Also car feels like its down on power.

I have a very cheap code reader, I will run the diagnostic again tonight but that the weekend, no codes detected or storage. I did get the ECG code when that went wrong, but now that is fixed code is cleared.

So, my Glow Plugs are Bosch, I did them 3 years ago myself and the GP relay at the same time as it is underneath the manifold and a pain to get to it. 2 injectors where replaced 2 years ago as they had failed and the other 4 where showing signs of wear but the spray pattern was on the acceptable side. And well... its left me thinking the following.

Could be, Glow Plugs, Injectors, Common Rail Fuel System, Turbo (if oil is leaking down into it)!

Does anyones/has anyone had this issue before before I book the beast in for a diagnostic and pray its not the turbo.

I have a 04 - 3.0 Turbo Diesel and its the M57tu engine (no swirl flaps).

Any help or advice is greatly received.

[wpoll]

Just thinking out loud here - valve stem seals? Engine oil is getting into the cylinders somehow when the engine is off and is burnt off at start up.

[wpoll]

And some more "out loud thinking"...

Engine breather/oil separator. Not sure if you have mentioned this elsewhere but if you haven't replaced this yet - it's way past time. The original design oil separator is a fibre/paper filter element that becomes very clogged and blocks the engine breather. Give enough time (and oil) it could collapse and allow un-trapped oil etc. to pass into the inlet tract.

The fibre/paper element was superseded by a vortex-type element but fitting this requires replacement of the whole engine breather assembly - or so I'm told. I did this but on review I think I could have fitted the new vortex element to the old breather. The breather assembly does have some minor design changes so in the end I'm happy that I replaced the whole thing.

Here's the OLD style assembly...



And the new one...



I got mine from just down the road from you...

BMW E46 E60 E61 E65 X3 E83 X5 E53 M57 N ENGINE CRANKCASE FILTER OIL BREATHER | eBay

sn_autohaus are great folk to deal with.

It's not a bad job replacing it and it's a good idea to replace the air filter while you're in there.

Here's what mine looked like after 200,000km.



And here is the new one in place (shiny new black item at right rear of engine - left side of photo).



Another thing you might want to look into is a check to see if any oil is making it's way up from the turbo. Pop off the outlet pipe from the intercooler at the intake to the inlet manifold (where the EGR meets the inlet manifold - known as an EGR Valve) and clean it all down, removing any oil etc. Then run the car for a day or two then re-check the inlet (EGR Valve). If there is a fresh coating of oil all over everything in there, you may have the smoking gun. A little oil deposited by oil vapour is normal but it shouldn't be enough to make the engine smoke at startup like you describe.

[Lamby]

Thanks Wpoll, Jesus, not the value guides again, I had those go on my old Citroen AX GT and, yeah you are right, puff of smoke on start up then it was fine due to oil leaking down them into the cylinder. Mercedes F1 team just got found out for using oil in the cylinder to create extra power so perhaps my French Hot Hatch was ahead of its time. I wish I still had it, they go for £5000 these days and mine was a good one!

Yeap, did the oil separator, as I had the old toilet roll style one, its about 2 years old now so might be worth looking into.

Right, nothing again on the codes, its going in to the shop for them to figure it out.

[Lamby]

Okay quick update. I have a leaky Turbo Charger. They told me it was a Garratt Turbo and common issues with these are as they wear out they develop play in the shaft, also my trust bearings are gone and.... (yes, the Turbo really is dead!) the seals have gone bad. All of this allows oil to come in and sit on my Turbo, then when I start it the engine throws it out the back of the car, at the moment its a small amount so only when the are is standing for 12 hours (Overnight) or more will I see smoke, if i do lots of small runs around town then I get a HUGE cloud to start with on first start then the rest are clean. So makes sense.

Hope that info might help someone.

[wpoll]

Oh snap!!

I'm pretty sure the turbo is a Garrett GT2260V and there seems to be plenty of options - from a new core through refurbished units right up to new units.

Hope you get it sorted....

[Lamby]

Okay, car is still in the shop, turns out all Glowplugs are also shot, the Module is worth doing at the same time and.... I have injector 4 and 6 dribbling diesel and leaving it in the cylinder over night as well.. I am looking at a pretty big repair bill on the old girl.

[Zulu95]

Given the absolute panic your national and city government has about Diesel vehicles I'm wondering why you would put a lot of quid into fixing the X?

[Lamby]

Originally Posted by Zulu95

Given the absolute panic your national and city government has about Diesel vehicles I'm wondering why you would put a lot of quid into fixing the X?

Its a good question,Zulu95 especially seen as the Gov. TOLD us to buy MORE Diesel cars 15 years ago as they where better for environment. I have the X5, intend to keep it and whatever they say, its an 14 year old X5. The energy to build a NEW X5 and run it will be WAAAAAY more than simply investing in repairing a used X5. I believe I should actually get a reduction on my Tax. Anyways, I think all new cars should be sold with a sticker that tell consumer how many kilowatts of energy it took to produce.

Truth is, I can't afford a new x5, don't like the E70 X5 (Sorry guys that own one, its just not for me) However, if the F15 shape comes into my price range, I will have one straight away, I love the look.

I wonder, the X5 changed the landscape of the SUV market, if I keep it a while, any chance of it becoming a classic? I seem to be in the habit of selling my cars at just the wrong time. I just looked at Prices for Ford Cosworths and then needed to sit down for 5 mins.

[Lamby]

Okay, just a quick update on 'Xena' my x5. 4 Injectors had failed, I had No.2 & 3 replaced 2 years ago. Most of the glow plugs had gone, new GP module and ended up with a rebuilt Garatt turbo. Turns out it needed a ton of work. End repair bill was £2,385. Pretty strong for a car that is worth, maybe £6,000. I am pretty lucky as the car did have a used warranty on it and they will pay for 50% parts and labour on Turbo and Injectors but not GP. So looks like I am going to get £774.00 back. Meaning a total cost to me at £1,611, Still a pretty large bill. I am going to keep the old girl for a while and its a good idea to keep her running well but not sure I can deal with much more of these large bills. Got her back today, drove her around a bit and it was really nice to have her back. Its a proper motor.