Environmental Impact

[OrangeFurious]

Hey all. I'm curious on any opinions and/or data this group has on the environmental impact of driving E53s or any older/high displacement car.

Some context: I'm not an extremist but I consider environmental impact of my actions at a personal and broad level. For example, I keep oil leaks under control because wasting finite resources is bad, pollution is bad, and it's an expensive mess in my driveway. Regardless on political opinions or any specifics, the consensus seems pretty clear that air pollution is no good and burning a lot of gas unnecessarily is dumb and pricey.

All that said, my most fuel efficient vehicle is a V12 E38.

In a hypothetical sense, is my net impact better by driving a well maintained older vehicle with poor mileage, or in a newer vehicle that takes less gas but requires resources to build fresh and ship? Especially as my E53 would likely remain on the road under a different owner?

[crystalworks]

There are always going to be conflicting views on this. Cost of producing a new vehicle vs. the cost of keeping an older less efficient vehicle on the road. It's probably the biggest position that detractors of electric cars take. Cost/resources to produce the batteries as well as the cars themselves.

That said, I'm of the mindset that as long as I am disposing of my oil properly for oil changes and not going pedal to the metal all day long, I'm probably doing the best I can to contribute whilst still being able to enjoy my driving experience. And enjoyment is exactly what it is... so it has to be in something that I find engaging and worthwhile.

[wpoll]

Originally Posted by OrangeFurious

In a hypothetical sense, is my net impact better by driving a well maintained older vehicle with poor mileage...

Quick answer - YES!!

The environmental cost to the of building a car far outweighs the environmental cost of running one. We need to make less cars and look after the ones we have...

It's even better than recycling.

I still cannot believe that Spartenburg punches out over 35,000 Xdrive cars a month. And that's just one car range from one manufacturer.

How is making cars at this rate sustainable? (Answer: it isn't).

[OrangeFurious]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

It's probably the biggest position that detractors of electric cars take. Cost/resources to produce the batteries as well as the cars themselves.

Originally Posted by wpoll

Quick answer - YES!!

This has been my intuitive opinion too. I remember reading old articles about the S600 and H2 having a lower lifetime environmental impact than the Prius due to the battery mining process and parts shipping / assembly line efficiencies. That said, it was proll'y 10 years ago and I'm aware of a natural bias to believe BS that suits my preference.

End of the day though, when I'm idling at 13mph in a sea of i3s and Teslas I do feel like a bit of a jerk.

[dannyzabolotny]

Eh, I don't really worry about it. I'm driving an old car that could be cluttering up a junkyard instead, so that's a win in my book. Plus it's hard to find high displacement, naturally-aspirated engines these days. I don't like turbos and 4 cylinder engines, so most new cars don't really appeal to me. Electric cars are boring and it seems like only the most pretentious people drive them.

So yeah, I'll happily roll around in my 13mpg X5 4.6is and my 16mpg 540it. I like driving a V8, and I will likely continue doing so until the last drop of oil is exhausted. Even if gas was $5/gallon I would still drive my current cars.

[wpoll]

Originally Posted by dannyzabolotny

Even if gas was $5/gallon I would still drive my current cars.

Whatdaya mean "Even if..."? Over here gas is nearly $10 a gallon...!

One reason for owning a diesel.

[sunny5280]

I'm of the mindset of staying in the middle and not going to either extreme.

My two vehicles, X5-M and Outback XT, are not the most fuel efficient but neither are they the least fuel efficient. They are the vehicles I like to drive and so I drive them. I'm not going to buy a more environmentally friendly vehicle just to be more environmentally friendly (though earlier in the year I had considered the purchase of a Chevy Volt).

Having said that I do attempt to keep my environmental impact low. I maintain the vehicles to ensure emissions are in check. I recycle things where possible (I take my trash out once every six months, recycle ever other week). I try to minimize waste where possible by reselling things or giving them away (free section of CL is great for this).

IMO it's all about balance.

[OrangeFurious]

The "like to drive" theme is big in this thread, as it should be. I think there's been an interesting turning point in the past couple years. It wasn't too long ago that buying something fun meant a big engine and bad mileage, and environmental friendliness meant a heavily compromised vehicle. Like 30 Rock said, Prius is Latin for impotence. Now, maybe that's changed. The XC90 Type R, Tesla X, Mazda CX-9 - all are sporty, decent looking and have the potential for a lot of fun with small engines and low post-manufacturing impact. Even my wife's Explorer is bigger, faster and more fuel efficient than my E53 (admittedly, it drives like a battleship).

This isn't to knock the E53 and I'm in no rush to move on, but I can't help thinking it's points of differentiation are dwindling.

Side note, I do realize all the examples I posted cost 10-20x what an E53 does.

[absolutezero273c]

I'm going to jump in this a little late but I'll have to agree that driving and maintaining an older car is much more environmentally conscious and friendly than buying a new car.

That is taking the raw materials, manufacturing and shipping into consideration.

I can see electric vehicles being the environmentally better alternative in the near future...if our electricity is generated by solar or hydrothermal sources. If not those sources then we're simply shifting our pollution output from our cars to the coal, natural gas or nuclear generation. Heck, there is even an environmental impact form hydro electric sources.

I'll have to disagree with you regarding the big engine required for fun. I'll date myself by saying this but when I was younger the classic Saab 900 Turbo, in my opinion, was what environmentally conscious people drove for fun. It was well built and was fun to drive. It also got decent fuel economy for it's time.

By no means was it an equivalent for our e38 750iL though. I own a 2001 750iL for my daily driver and although it gets worse fuel economy than my 2001 330xi it still is considered a LEV. And burns cleaner than the old Saab 900 Turbos I mentioned.

[dannyzabolotny]

Right, I get that the new small-displacement engines with turbos can often make way more power than our big V8's and V12's, but the feel is completely different. Plus a turbo 4 will never sound as good as a V8 with a straight pipe. I don't think I'll ever buy a newer car unless it's something like a Corvette or Challenger with a big NA V8.

I'm kinda at the other end of the spectrum in terms of environmental stuff—*I'm perfectly okay with removing emissions equipment and cats, and I drive with a lead foot so my gas mileage is pretty abysmal. The most I've ever gotten from my X5 was like 15mpg because I was driving 80mph for most of a tank. Otherwise I get roughly 13mpg because of city driving and 85+ mph highway driving.

For my next major project car I'll probably buy a C3 Corvette and swap in a 454 big block. Then I'll bore it to 496 (~8.1L) because there ain't no replacement for displacement.