Thinking of getting E53 4.4 or 4.6

[isarkisov]

It's been a while since I posted on E53 forum. I sold my 01 X5 4.4i in 2013, and bought 09 X5 3.0i. My E70 N52 is not powerful enough to tow my 3200lbs boat, which, with a tandem trailer and other things weighs about 5,500lbs.

I am thinking of giving my E70 to my teenage daughter and getting myself something that can handle my rig. I don't want to get a truck as I know I am not going to enjoy driving it.

To cut story short, I am considering buying 00-03 4.4i or 4.6is. For the most part it will be used used as my daily, and occasionally used to tow my boat. I am looking at one 03 4.4i with a tow package, and another 03 4.6is without a tow package. I need an advice on which vehicle I should get, and do have couple of questions:

* Does 4.6is M62 suffer from the timing guide problems just like 4.4i? Will replacing tensioners buy me some time before I have to face rather big timing chain expense?
* How difficult would it be to install an OEM hitch and harness on 4.6is? Is the OEM hitch for 4.6is same as 4.4i? Do I have to cut the bumper (I hope not) ?
* Would it be safer to get 4.6is without tow package and have assurance that it wasn't used for towing heavy things or go with 4.4i with a tow package and save about $2.5k ($1.5k price diff, plus $1k for hitch and installation)? The owner of 4.4i did say that he tow his boat couple of times.

It's worth mentioning that most of the towing will be done over the mountain passes, albeit for the most part short distances of 5 miles each way.

[Henn28]

The M62 4.4 and the 4.6 are basically the same motor. The timing chain mess is exactly the same and therefore the 4.6 will suffer the same fate as the 4.4 if/when the guides fall apart. Personally I wouldn’t buy any M62 motor based car, unless deeply discounted, if the seller can show that the guides have been done.

There is tons of advice and opinions on this subject in this, and other boards though if you’ve got the time. Some maintain that you can drop the lower pan and look for plastic bits, and/or snake a camera down the oil filter hole and get a look at the guides. I think that the plastic bits of the guides age and you are on borrowed time by 150k. I am an average mechanic though, but one who reads a lot. To be fair, my 2002 4.4 made it to 150k and although it was clattering for years on start, it hasn’t failed.

I can’t speak about the hitch mod, but I have seen several good threads on adding hitches on this forum. I would be prepared to drop some money into leaks in general, but possibly the valley pan and pipes if they haven’t been re done recently too.

[isarkisov]

Originally Posted by Henn28

The M62 4.4 and the 4.6 are basically the same motor. The timing chain mess is exactly the same and therefore the 4.6 will suffer the same fate as the 4.4 if/when the guides fall apart. Personally I wouldn’t buy any M62 motor based car, unless deeply discounted, if the seller can show that the guides have been done.

There is tons of advice and opinions on this subject in this, and other boards though if you’ve got the time. Some maintain that you can drop the lower pan and look for plastic bits, and/or snake a camera down the oil filter hole and get a look at the guides. I think that the plastic bits of the guides age and you are on borrowed time by 150k. I am an average mechanic though, but one who reads a lot. To be fair, my 2002 4.4 made it to 150k and although it was clattering for years on start, it hasn’t failed.

I can’t speak about the hitch mod, but I have seen several good threads on adding hitches on this forum. I would be prepared to drop some money into leaks in general, but possibly the valley pan and pipes if they haven’t been re done recently too.

Which V8 engine do you recommend then? I know N62s have problems with the valve seals, and N63 aren't that good either. Maybe N63TU, but that cost way more money. I've considered E70 35d, but they do cost quite a bit.

[nick325xit 5spd]

I’d avoid the 4.6, unless you’re specifically hot for it. It doesn’t get you much over the 4.4 other than a rare and expensive long block.

Personally, I’d much rather have the N62 if I had to get a V8. Valve seals aren’t *that* bad, and you get a way better transmission.

That said, if I were to accept an automatic, I’d get the E70 35d. It’s a very well suited engine to the chassis.

Edit: The N63 is an absolute pile of shit. That’s a “lease new and give back in three years” engine. Preferably on a tax deductible basis.

[Henn28]

For me, it would come down to price and condition between two cars with either M62 version. The 4.6 Is good for 50+ more hp and 20+ Additional ftlbs, so not an insignificant increase in power. I’ve owned both now, in the same car and I think the difference is very noticeable.

That said, 4.6is E53s will come at a premium I suspect though, especially if they have had the “usual suspects” addressed….timing chain guides, valley pans, etc. 4.4is need all the same work, but there were many more made.

Aside from the block (bore size difference only) he M62TUB46 parts that are really different are cams the and rotating assemblies, which can be very hard to source if something drastic goes wrong. The transmission and torque converters are super hard to find too, but fortunately the 4.6 used a slightly different version of the ubiquitous 5HP24 that the 4.4 used which had a slight larger TQ and one more clutch. The 4.4i gearbox will bolt right up and run great with a 4.6 motor (DME tweak might be required). Gas mileage is a difference too that might matter: my 4.4 wasn’t amazing, but the 4.6 sucks when it comes to MPG. My car is a bit lifted and has larger AT tires though, so that doesn’t help. Maybe some 4.6is owners will chime in with their experience.

All in all, the 4.4 is probably the winner for you unless you can find a 4.6 at a good price and are willing to refresh the motor, or find one that has been refreshed already and are willing to spend more for the extra power. 4.4i x5s are pretty cheap. I’ve never towed 5500 lbs with mine, but both are great cars and would tow your boat just fine I think.

One more thing, I have never had an N62 car, but there are lots of guys who like that motor a lot. Like the M62 though, it has its issues. Specifically the valve guides and leaking alternator brackets are big jobs that it seems every N62 owner gets to do at some point.

[stiubhartach]

“N62s have problems with the valve seals.”

While this is true, it’s not as common as reported. Many of the valve seal problems with smoking are actually malfunctioning CCV systems sucking oil into the intake manifold. I’ve had no problems with my valve seals on my 2005 N62 @170k miles, but I’ve had three bouts of smoking that were all fixed by repairing the CCV system. (Note: changing valve stem seals isn’t that hard).

The only issue I’ve had with the N62 is leaking O ring in the coolant pipe under the intake manifold. Used a stent to fix it.

[killcrap]

Originally Posted by stiubhartach

“N62s have problems with the valve seals.”

While this is true, it’s not as common as reported. Many of the valve seal problems with smoking are actually malfunctioning CCV systems sucking oil into the intake manifold. I’ve had no problems with my valve seals on my 2005 N62 @170k miles, but I’ve had three bouts of smoking that were all fixed by repairing the CCV system. (Note: changing valve stem seals isn’t that hard).

The only issue I’ve had with the N62 is leaking O ring in the coolant pipe under the intake manifold. Used a stent to fix it.

Unfortunately this is false. The N62 has easy to service vent valves and it will be very obvious when there is an issue with them. Usually service engine soon with mixture faults or checksum faults.

The majority of oil burning issues are the valve stem seals with few reporting issues with worn out valve guides as they are almost never checked properly.

The cylinder heads need to be removed to check the valve guides with new valves to check the amount of valve tilt.

Even fewer owners are reporting issues as the N62 X5 vehicles are usually no longer in service or retired from road use.

[stiubhartach]

Originally Posted by killcrap

Unfortunately this is false. The N62 has easy to service vent valves and it will be very obvious when there is an issue with them. Usually service engine soon with mixture faults or checksum faults.
.

I disagree. When I had my smoking issues, I didn’t have any engine faults. And the vent valves, while easy to service, sit on top of an oil maze in the valve cover than needs to be cleaned and rarely is.

I bought my X5 from the original owner for a steal because it was occasionally smoking and the dealer told him it needed valve stem seals. The dealer had serviced the CCV system, but failed to clean the valve covers correctly which prevented the valves from closing under high intake manifold vacuum. This allowed oil to be sucked into the intake manifold and eventually into the cylinder.

I pulled the valve covers and cleaned them correctly, installed new vent valves and the problem went away for several years. Until it was time to replace them again.

It’s easy enough to check for oil in the intake manifold with a boroscope. This is positive proof oil CCV failure. If the intake manifold is dry, then it most likely is valve stem seal. I theorize that many of early valve stem seal failure diagnosis are actually just CCV failure.


Here’s a write up I did:

https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...lem-fixed.html

[Henn28]

Didn't BMW do a recall on the N62 for the valve seals? My buddy has a 5 series with the motor and told me it was recalled for the problem and has been running like a top since then.

[StephenVA]

For a tow vehicle I would recommend a new Ford, Ram, or Chevy. Built for it and repairs can be done everywhere by anyone.

Purpose built not a do everything vehicle is the best long term choice.

Oh, I do not have the dreaded valve stem seal issues.