ATE rotors / Jurid Pads

Paulpt · #1 05-04-2006, 04:07 PM

Anyone has experience with ATE rotors?

After a year of my last replacement (Brembo rotors / Axxis Pads), the rotors are warped. Sucks because they still (both rotors and pads) have plenty of life on them.

Pads break in was done by the book, the rotors have intense glazing marks on them (not sure if this is the right use of terms).

My mechanic (experienced guy) suggested to go with ATE and change pads to OE compound, he suggested Textar, Pagid or Jurid (actually I think they are all the same manufacturer).

His opinion is that the pads may have been way to hard on the rotors, creating very high temp. Also (this I find out), is that Brembo are excellent but they are some made in Italy, some in Mexico and some somewhere else. Some of this may be using a cheaper metal compound made in China. Not 100% sure if this is true or not. I think the Axxis (deluxe) may have been way too hard on the rotors. Anyway, it sucks, another 400 bucks just a year later.

Anyone has any experience with these two components?

Thanks

Sponsored Links

The Cleaner · #2 05-04-2006, 04:48 PM

Good Mechanic, Axxis pads are very destructive to rotors. They are designed to limit dust not perform to Original TUV specifications. They are no where close to TUV specifications and not approved for any BMW. ATE rotors are as good as any, as for pads the X5 came from the factory with Jurids in the front and Textar in the rear.

My personal choice is Jurid pads and Balo rotors in the front and Textar with Balo in the rear.

Paulpt · #3 05-04-2006, 08:58 PM

That's right cleaner. This guy is amazing, former racing mechanic, very honest and straigh forward. He works mainly on Bentley, Porsche, Aston.

Your observation about Axxis is exactly what he said (especially the dust part), he has used the ATE rotors and he says are very good, made in germany made usually to meet german specs, so I guess I can't go wrong. I do not know the ones you mention but if they are german, they should be good too. Where did you buy them ?, I may be able to stop my order and order those. Are those the ones that come on the X5 from the factory?

In the past I bought the Axxis following the good experience many people had with them on this forum, but it seems they did not work as well for me.

Kewl X5 · #4 05-04-2006, 09:24 PM

Okay, my experience with OE direct replacement Brembro rotors have been poor. I did try a set on our old Volvo and they warped badly...Two years ago, I got a set for the X5 from TireRack and again, they warped badly. Never again will I use Brembo OE direct replacement rotors.

I ended up getting a set of BMW rotors and used Axxis Ultimate pads from Hayaku's garage and even though they the Axxis ultimate dust, the stopping power and initial "bite" of the pads are excellent and still with no warping of the rotors. My conclusion is to stay away from the Brembo OE rotors and stick with BMW rotors (especially since BMW parts have 2 yr/unlimited miles warranty on their parts) and either use BMW OE pads or whatever pads you like.

I have used ATE rotors in the past in my old E30 with great results with no warpage with using Pagid pads (they also dust alot, but "bite" really well). Again, it is quite possible about the Axxis Deluxe pads being a little hard on the rotors, but you forgot to blame the Brembo rotor itself....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulpt

Anyone has experience with ATE rotors?

After a year of my last replacement (Brembo rotors / Axxis Pads), the rotors are warped. Sucks because they still (both rotors and pads) have plenty of life on them.

Pads break in was done by the book, the rotors have intense glazing marks on them (not sure if this is the right use of terms).

My mechanic (experienced guy) suggested to go with ATE and change pads to OE compound, he suggested Textar, Pagid or Jurid (actually I think they are all the same manufacturer).

His opinion is that the pads may have been way to hard on the rotors, creating very high temp. Also (this I find out), is that Brembo are excellent but they are some made in Italy, some in Mexico and some somewhere else. Some of this may be using a cheaper metal compound made in China. Not 100% sure if this is true or not. I think the Axxis (deluxe) may have been way too hard on the rotors. Anyway, it sucks, another 400 bucks just a year later.

Anyone has any experience with these two components?

Thanks

Paulpt · #5 05-04-2006, 09:35 PM

Yes, Kewl, you are right, I am not crazy about Brembo either, (that's why I am now switching to ATE), the fact that the Axxis "destroyed" the rotors does not say much about Brembo either. I would buy the BMW but honestly I hate (the same story always), how much more they charge for their parts, when they are also getting them from some manufacturers (who is it, not sure yet). But in my case the combination Brembo did not work. Too bad a while ago I did the same thing in the rear, but those seem to be holding better, I guess as they do not take all the braking job as the front ones.

The Cleaner · #6 05-05-2006, 11:32 AM

There are only a few companies that cast rotors in the EC. Most are actually in Italy, same goes for Water Pump castings. The key to rotors is getting them as close to the factory Rockwell hardness as possible. For Pads the requirement is +/- 10% of OE specifications for TUV approval. Once you get the Rotors and Pads to meet spec then your brakes will not warp, grind or squeak as easily, but even with a perfect combo you will have problems sometimes.

Now BMW buys rotor castings from several foundries and finishes them themselves so finding the equivalent BMW rotor in the aftermarket will not happen. Pads on the other hand are easyer to find in TUV approved spec and my previous post is what BMW ships on the X5. The 2 primarily rotor companies out of Germany that actually do the finishing are Zimmermann and Balo. ATE has high standards for rotor production, however they do not manufacture the rotors themselves, they are purchased on the open market, but with the highest standards. That is why I stated they are as good as any, I have warped ever brand of rotor on the market including factory rotors, I have had squeak ands grind problems with every combination you can think of. My best results are with OEM spec German pads and Balo rotors.

Axxis pads have a long history in the US market, I don’t care to get into a big discussion over the merits of Axxis pads, a quick web search will yield thousands of happy customers. My only comment is they are not to specification for European cars or TUV approved. I can’t find anyplace they are approved by any brake system manufacturer other than some aftermarket brake “kit” makers. This does not make them inferior, but it make me wonder why they are not going after approval.

fast4d · #7 05-05-2006, 01:15 PM

the first 2 front pads we had on the x5 were factory original and dealer installed BMW pads. I used ATE pads on new brembo rotors the last time and they pads didn't last as long as bmw pads. I just installed PBR pads but I don't know if they are the same compound as the axxis pads.

I also replaced the factory rear pads (lasted 60k) but 25k later there's only about 1/3 left.

Teutonaddict · #8 05-05-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

For Pads the requirement is +/- 10% of OE specifications for TUV approval....

Axxis pads have a long history in the US market, I don’t care to get into a big discussion over the merits of Axxis pads, a quick web search will yield thousands of happy customers. My only comment is they are not to specification for European cars or TUV approved. I can’t find anyplace they are approved by any brake system manufacturer other than some aftermarket brake “kit” makers. This does not make them inferior, but it make me wonder why they are not going after approval.

Thanks for your clarifying statement, Cleaner. This is much more helpful to me (and more objective) than the prior statements:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

...Axxis pads are very destructive to rotors. They are designed to limit dust not perform to Original TUV specifications. They are no where close to TUV specifications and not approved for any BMW.

Just out of curiosity, do you have any data re: just how out-of-OE-spec the Axxis pads are?

FWIW, I only have my own experience (n=1) with Axxis Deluxe Plus pads on (1) OE rotors and (2) StopTech Aero Rotors on E38 7er and E39 M5. With proper bedding, I've never had warping (uneven pad deposition) issues--even with frequent track use, in the case of the M5.

And, as with every single modification we make to our beloved machines, I knew up front there would be trade-offs. I desperately was seeking less dust than OE Jurid on each vehicle, as I'd prefer to spend my time driving and not washing wheels. So I went with Axxis for the dust-less (than stock) properties, knowing full well there may be performance dropoffs as a result.

In my experience, accelerated rotor wear and uneven pad deposition (warpage) were not part of the tradeoff equation. Slight loss of initial 'bite' was, but my rotor wear was at least as durable with the Deluxe Plus pads as with the OE Jurids (based on 85K miles of ownership).

I, too, wonder how much of a factor the non-OE rotors were in this particular customer experience. Thanks for your insight on TUV specs!

-Dave

RuppX5 · #9 05-05-2006, 01:37 PM

I believe that ATE is the OEM supplier for brake rotors. I have a set of Brembos on the front that I believe warped not too long after putting them on. (I've had a light steering wheel wobble that is either a bad control arm or bad rotor(s)) I have a set of the ATEs on the rear and seem to be nice.

The ATEs boxes are marked with "made in Germany", so I'd trust them more than the Brembos. They are only a few dollars more than the Brembos anyways.

The Cleaner · #10 05-05-2006, 02:05 PM

I do not want to make it sound as is Axxis are a product to avoid. On the contrary…. They are recommended by to many people for there to be anything negative about the product. I am just a believer that when a brake system is designed and tested the intended result is known and planned for, from ABS to traction control and stopping distances, the manufacturer has designed many other systems around the “known” characteristics of a braking system. I have a belief that keeping all the variables in braking as close to factory as possible will result in the best possible performance of every system that may depend on brake performance.

“How out of spec is Axxis” probably not as much as we would think. I learned from a performance friction engineer at a recent meeting that many of the low dust compounds use a completely different material to formulate the “puck” or friction material of the pad. Many OEM compounds are Kevlar based material that is more prone to brake material attaching to the wheels. Dustless pads use a different compound that is smaller in molecular size and it does not stick as easily. Who knows how much truth is in that statement, but I think we can all agree that brake pads may be the most heavily discussed topic in automotive history. The ultimate answer to the question is to use what works for you, take all advise with a grain of salt and formulate your own opinions.

Good Luck !

Sponsored Links