Help Head gasket blown

[GT475]

Good day all,

Mine is about to go to hell

Just got a call from the dealership who's having our 2000 X5 for oil in prestone.

Original taught was that the oil separator was the culpit but it looks like the head gasket has blown. Curiously no white smoke ever came out of the car just a lost of cabin heat which resulted from low prestone (no warning light what so ever (and the dashboard light works).

I had top it off for 2-3 weeks. The engine temp gage never went off the middle. I don't understand with all the engineering in this howcome we never got a warning sign.

Anyhow, they are going to spend the required 3 hours to pull the top off and see if there is more damage.

The service man (which we have been dealing with for several years now) is warning me that there might be a possiblity that they could not be able to remove the head bolts without stripping them. In which case, he is saying that we might have to get a new block

How can that be?

Cant they just fix the damage thread in these blocks, if any?

He said a new block is in the 10G+. The car is just worth about 19kCDN.

Anybody with taughts, comments, past experience with this is appreciated.

I am totally devastated with this car now.
We had put in some big $ last fall to fix some minor rust and other regular maintenance stuff, new set of winter tires, etc.

Were thinking of selling it this spring and order a 335xi for next winter.

Don't know what to think anymore.

Marc

[01 BMW_X5]

I would get the X away from the dealer.
Let it rest in my garage while I....
Check the junkyards/eBay/craigslist for a complete engine/long block and get an idea on pricing.
Call a few indies about what it would cost to remove replace.

10G is just for engine.
Figure in labor costs, water pump, thermostat(whatever caused the overheating), gasket sets and whatever they find/damage while they removing the engine and you going to have one biggggggg bill.

Having it in your driveway/garage gives you time to think!!

[01 BMW_X5]

3 hours to pull the head??
Stripping head bolts??
New block??

If he told me this, I would ask him how wide should does he want me to start spread my legs and I hope he is not gonna charge for the lubrication/grease.

[CanadianX5]

10g's !!!!
Take it to another place and dont mention what the first guy said.
Let the new mechanic come to his own conclusions.

Good luck

[Islands52]

Is it a 3.0 or a 4.4?

First off, you should be using BMW coolant and not Prestone. I'd also be getting a second opinion as a blown head gasket should have definitely had symptoms such as sludge in the oil...unless its a very minor leak, in which case a new head or block should not be needed...anyway, I would definitely get another opinion, or even two, before either spending $10K or sourcing a junkyard motor.

[GT475]

Originally Posted by Islands52

Is it a 3.0 or a 4.4?

First off, you should be using BMW coolant and not Prestone. I'd also be getting a second opinion as a blown head gasket should have definitely had symptoms such as sludge in the oil...unless its a very minor leak, in which case a new head or block should not be needed...anyway, I would definitely get another opinion, or even two, before either spending $10K or sourcing a junkyard motor.

It is a 3.0 6 speed manual.

My wife came home one night complaining of not having heat at a stop light but getting it back when running.
I had check the coolant to find it below the low mark on the plunger. I top it off (about 1L) and since she had an appointment for the brakes, and the temp gage was steady at the middle, I figured it was Ok for now.

Last Saturday (we had the appointment yesterday), she complained again about the loss of heat. I checked again and sure enough, the plunger was low and when I top it off again, I notice the infamous brown liquid coming at the top. I asked about white smoke and sign of overheating and she said no. Outside temp was around 10deg C so maybe, it was enough to keep the engine cool enough but I would be surprised. If the engine was overheating, the temp sensor should have picked it up and should have shown a problem on the computer board at least.

I told her to drive easy and not to put compression on (manual tranny) and keep it low rev.

As for the sludge in the oil, well that has been a long time issue with this car. When it was new, I complained about the high oil consumption (my 5L FORD iron block consumes less oil than that engine) and BMW put it on their surveillance program only to find everything was normal.

Then one day (many years ago) I had to fill the oil as I do regularly between the schedule change to notice the inside of the oil cap was showing a funny thick whiteiss-browniss paste. They say it was normal for that engine.

I figured that the absence of white smoke probably comes from the gasket leak between the water passage and the oil (away from the combustion chamber). I have not seen what the oil looks like (most likely contaminated with coolant) but I still hope the oil pressure was higher than the coolant pressure and the oil leak into the coolant system more than the other way around.

We will see tomorrow. When I call 1 hour ago, they were about to remove the valve train.

Crossing my fingers.

I am not buying the block story either. They will put an helicoil in if the break or strip a thread and I will do it myself if I have too.

Marc

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by GT475

It is a 3.0 6 speed manual.

My wife came home one night complaining of not having heat at a stop light but getting it back when running.
I had check the coolant to find it below the low mark on the plunger. I top it off (about 1L) and since she had an appointment for the brakes, and the temp gage was steady at the middle, I figured it was Ok for now.

Last Saturday (we had the appointment yesterday), she complained again about the loss of heat. I checked again and sure enough, the plunger was low and when I top it off again, I notice the infamous brown liquid coming at the top. I asked about white smoke and sign of overheating and she said no. Outside temp was around 10deg C so maybe, it was enough to keep the engine cool enough but I would be surprised. If the engine was overheating, the temp sensor should have picked it up and should have shown a problem on the computer board at least.

I told her to drive easy and not to put compression on (manual tranny) and keep it low rev.

As for the sludge in the oil, well that has been a long time issue with this car. When it was new, I complained about the high oil consumption (my 5L FORD iron block consumes less oil than that engine) and BMW put it on their surveillance program only to find everything was normal.

Then one day (many years ago) I had to fill the oil as I do regularly between the schedule change to notice the inside of the oil cap was showing a funny thick whiteiss-browniss paste. They say it was normal for that engine.

I figured that the absence of white smoke probably comes from the gasket leak between the water passage and the oil (away from the combustion chamber). I have not seen what the oil looks like (most likely contaminated with coolant) but I still hope the oil pressure was higher than the coolant pressure and the oil leak into the coolant system more than the other way around.

We will see tomorrow. When I call 1 hour ago, they were about to remove the valve train.

Crossing my fingers.

I am not buying the block story either. They will put an helicoil in if the break or strip a thread and I will do it myself if I have too.

Marc

When the headgasket fails, oil in the cooling system is usually moke likely because of the pressure difference between the two systems (like your situation).

The white stuff you see on your oil cap is the result of moisture. Indicates that you're making short-trips during which the engine can't reach operating temperature and burn excess moisture. If you're seeing that, having the oil separator changed before next winter would be something to think about, as that excess moisture freezes creating big problems. A more proactive solution would be to stop making short trips.

[Islands52]

Originally Posted by GT475

It is a 3.0 6 speed manual.

My wife came home one night complaining of not having heat at a stop light but getting it back when running.
I had check the coolant to find it below the low mark on the plunger. I top it off (about 1L) and since she had an appointment for the brakes, and the temp gage was steady at the middle, I figured it was Ok for now.

Last Saturday (we had the appointment yesterday), she complained again about the loss of heat. I checked again and sure enough, the plunger was low and when I top it off again, I notice the infamous brown liquid coming at the top. I asked about white smoke and sign of overheating and she said no. Outside temp was around 10deg C so maybe, it was enough to keep the engine cool enough but I would be surprised. If the engine was overheating, the temp sensor should have picked it up and should have shown a problem on the computer board at least.

I told her to drive easy and not to put compression on (manual tranny) and keep it low rev.

As for the sludge in the oil, well that has been a long time issue with this car. When it was new, I complained about the high oil consumption (my 5L FORD iron block consumes less oil than that engine) and BMW put it on their surveillance program only to find everything was normal.

Then one day (many years ago) I had to fill the oil as I do regularly between the schedule change to notice the inside of the oil cap was showing a funny thick whiteiss-browniss paste. They say it was normal for that engine.

I figured that the absence of white smoke probably comes from the gasket leak between the water passage and the oil (away from the combustion chamber). I have not seen what the oil looks like (most likely contaminated with coolant) but I still hope the oil pressure was higher than the coolant pressure and the oil leak into the coolant system more than the other way around.

We will see tomorrow. When I call 1 hour ago, they were about to remove the valve train.

Crossing my fingers.

I am not buying the block story either. They will put an helicoil in if the break or strip a thread and I will do it myself if I have too.

Marc

Well, good luck. I would still definitely look to another shop for an opinion...a shop warning you a head of time that they may damage the motor "looking for additional problems" is a red flag to me (although from your post looks like they are already doing the work). Also the 3.0 is a common motor, one they should be extremely familiar with by now.

I've only had one car blow a head gasket, an 89' Porsche Turbo S, and that was a $2500 job. I hope you manage to get in repaired as painlessly as possible.

As to the H2O temp gauge, BMW has been buffering those for years, so that they never show true coolant tempurature, and only go ed in the event of catastrophic failure. I recently bought a little gizmo called the Scangauge II from Amazon....its a $150 OBD 2 monitoring device and computer...it also will monitor coolant temp to the degree and save the highest value per day in memory...a worthwhile little device...and it matches the amber illumination color of our cars to boot.

http://www.scangauge.com/

[GT475]

Originally Posted by Islands52

Well, good luck. I would still definitely look to another shop for an opinion...a shop warning you a head of time that they may damage the motor "looking for additional problems" is a red flag to me (although from your post looks like they are already doing the work). Also the 3.0 is a common motor, one they should be extremely familiar with by now.

I've only had one car blow a head gasket, an 89' Porsche Turbo S, and that was a $2500 job. I hope you manage to get in repaired as painlessly as possible.

As to the H2O temp gauge, BMW has been buffering those for years, so that they never show true coolant tempurature, and only go ed in the event of catastrophic failure. I recently bought a little gizmo called the Scangauge II from Amazon....its a $150 OBD 2 monitoring device and computer...it also will monitor coolant temp to the degree and save the highest value per day in memory...a worthwhile little device...and it matches the amber illumination color of our cars to boot.

http://www.scangauge.com/

Thank you Islands52,

Definitely hope to get that fix with minimum impact.

Thing is that we really have no choice now. Don't want to drive the car. Can't really sell it the way it is.
No trade in possible as any BMW dealer will know about the car. I do not want to sell it the way it is anyway. Plus it has no "head" anymore right now or almost...

Feel trapped like a rat.
The plan was to sell it before the winter but we first got caught with early snow (this is my wife winter car) and it was too late for the 335xi. We were told we should wait for the spring because of the US$ vs CDN$, the MSRP will drop in spring. So, we ended up keeping it a bit too long, I guess.

I will now get the convertible out of winter storage despite a bit of pot hole and winter sand on the streets. Unfortunately, looks like the Kenne Bell $ will go toward the bimmer gasket instead...

Will see but we like the X very much. It is been some how "reliable" despite some annoying little things over the years. Still drives like a charm.
Not very many 3.0 5 speed manual in the country.

I am planning to go to the dealer tomorrow while I am on business nearby and see for myself.

I just dusted off the "for sale" ad I had from the previous 530i we sold 7 years ago. Will bring it with me when we will get the car off the dealer.

Out of 4 cars we have, all of them been a "first year" production wintage so I guess we don't learn our lessons very well, don't we?

As a mechanical eng, I always had no fear of working on the Fords (2 Mustangs and 1 EDGE) but somehow the Bimmer always represented the cream of the cream for me in terms of automotive engineering so I been affraid to work on them.

Will let you know how it went.

And on top we need to have that rear passenger window fixed (see my other Help post from Sunday and got to have brake fixed.

Lucky buyer it will be...

Marc

[X5 Meister]

Did you integrate the scangauge already? Can you write-up the installation? I'd be very interested to see the coolant temp setup.

Originally Posted by Islands52

Well, good luck. I would still definitely look to another shop for an opinion...a shop warning you a head of time that they may damage the motor "looking for additional problems" is a red flag to me (although from your post looks like they are already doing the work). Also the 3.0 is a common motor, one they should be extremely familiar with by now.

I've only had one car blow a head gasket, an 89' Porsche Turbo S, and that was a $2500 job. I hope you manage to get in repaired as painlessly as possible.

As to the H2O temp gauge, BMW has been buffering those for years, so that they never show true coolant tempurature, and only go ed in the event of catastrophic failure. I recently bought a little gizmo called the Scangauge II from Amazon....its a $150 OBD 2 monitoring device and computer...it also will monitor coolant temp to the degree and save the highest value per day in memory...a worthwhile little device...and it matches the amber illumination color of our cars to boot.

http://www.scangauge.com/