Any Diesel Guru’s out there??

[Laurence]

My car broke down a couple of weeks ago.
I had completed a 250 mile drive (without problem) – the next day, the car wouldn’t start. It would turn over but fire. I had this problem before about two years ago and it turned out to be the fuel pressure rail sensor.

So, I got the car towed to the dealer and they diagnosed the high pressure fuel pump as being the problem. So a week later and £1000 ($2000) poorer I get my car back.
I only managed to use it twice before it had exactly the same problem again – it wouldn’t start – infact, it packed up altogether on the dealer premises – so I left it there!

I get a phone call today and they are saying that the glow plugs are at fault, four of the six are high resistance and not working. So, they are going to replace them (£500 - $1000), but I was told today that two of them had snapped off in the head and they were waiting for a “specialist” to come and remove them……..

Now – I’m still not convinced that changing the glow plugs will sort the problem out – the glow plugs only operate when the engine is cold and the last time it wouldn’t start the engine was hot.

I’ve now been without my car for two weeks and having to hire a car (because the dealer didn’t have any courtesy cars available) its is getting very expensive.

I have yet to have the conversation with the dealer about their inability to sort this problem out – we’ll see if they try to invoice me for a second time for the same problem!

Does anyone have any other suggestions as to what the issue may be before I get shafted even further by the dealer?

[X5Sport]

Get BMW UK involved ASAP.

They are sometimes useless, but have on a couple of occasions been helpful. And remember that if you've been charged incorrectly for work that did not need doing you may have a legal case against the dealer. Talk to your local trading standards folks too.

I would have expected that problems of this type should have shown up in the fault log.

I had a dealer try to charge me £500 ($1,000) for work that completely misidentified the problem. Eventually a different dealer found that the starter motor was the issue (this was completely missed by the original dealer) and all is now well with the X. I have grave misgivings about the technical abilities of BMW dealers in the UK. There is far too much reliance on the computers fault diagnosis systems, and not enough working from first principles. If the computer wasn't programmed correctly then it will never correctly identify the fault. A properly trained and highly experienced mechanic would work his/her way though the problem from basic to complex. They "talk the talk" but don't seem to be able to "walk the walk" - and yes it is probably fair to say the whole motor industry in the UK needs a major shake-up. It's been shoddy for too many years. I doubt I will ever buy another bimmer because I don't trust the franchised support available in the UK, and we don't have a decent independent dealer nearby.

If they misidentified the fault first time around demand a refund!! I certainly would not pay for more work.

You are quite tight about the glowplugs, I don't think they come on above 5deg C and a diesel WILL start without them - it just takes a couple more cranks. I've done it many times and never had an issue.

[E5M1R]

Originally Posted by Laurence

Now – I’m still not convinced that changing the glow plugs will sort the problem out – the glow plugs only operate when the engine is cold and the last time it wouldn’t start the engine was hot.

Glow plugs start the car up, when motor is runing the fules self ingites.
You nead them to start the car.

If i ware you i would check if that fule pump change was nececery

[Laurence]

Originally Posted by X5Sport

Get BMW UK involved ASAP.

They are sometimes useless, but have on a couple of occasions been helpful. And remember that if you've been charged incorrectly for work that did not need doing you may have a legal case against the dealer. Talk to your local trading standards folks too.

I would have expected that problems of this type should have shown up in the fault log.

I had a dealer try to charge me £500 ($1,000) for work that completely misidentified the problem. Eventually a different dealer found that the starter motor was the issue (this was completely missed by the original dealer) and all is now well with the X. I have grave misgivings about the technical abilities of BMW dealers in the UK. There is far too much reliance on the computers fault diagnosis systems, and not enough working from first principles. If the computer wasn't programmed correctly then it will never correctly identify the fault. A properly trained and highly experienced mechanic would work his/her way though the problem from basic to complex. They "talk the talk" but don't seem to be able to "walk the walk" - and yes it is probably fair to say the whole motor industry in the UK needs a major shake-up. It's been shoddy for too many years. I doubt I will ever buy another bimmer because I don't trust the franchised support available in the UK, and we don't have a decent independent dealer nearby.

If they misidentified the fault first time around demand a refund!! I certainly would not pay for more work.

You are quite tight about the glowplugs, I don't think they come on above 5deg C and a diesel WILL start without them - it just takes a couple more cranks. I've done it many times and never had an issue.

Your quite right, my past experiences with the main dealers would be the main reason for not getting another BMW.
Time will tell if they manage to sort this problem out and yes, they depend too much on computers - the last time I had this problem the fuel pressure rail sensor was faulty. It didn't throw a fault code as it was (incorrectly) reporting that the pressure was low and therefore the engine management system wouldn't fire the injectors. I'm thinking that I may be having the same problem again - but I told the dealer about this past issue when it first went in!!

I'll let you know what the out come is!

[X5devon]

i would have said that one of your fuel pumps was at fault (theres one in the tank and an other in the engine bay) your dealer replaced the high pressure engine pump (Common problem on the 3.0 diesel), but im suprised they reckon its the glow plugs as it should still start in our climate with faulty units.
Once they have replaced them and it hopefully solves the problem, i would question the need for the new pump and see how you get on

[blueagle]

I like this thread. I also own an 02 E53 X5 3.0d euro spec. I hope we can have a dedicated thread for all X5 diesel owners.

[fatboyoz]

Originally Posted by E5M1R

Glow plugs start the car up, when motor is runing the fules self ingites.
You nead them to start the car.

If i ware you i would check if that fule pump change was nececery

Not quite right. Read this article.
Unlike gasoline engines in which spark plugs ignite a premixed air-fuel mixture in the combustion chamber, diesel engines work according to the so-called self-ignition process. With this process, intake air is compressed and close to top dead center diesel fuel is injected into the combustion chamber. The injected fuel mixes with the compressed air, evaporates and ignites almost simultaneously because the intake air heats up during compression and diesel fuel has a relatively low ignition temperature. No external ignition device like a spark plug is needed. However, with a cold diesel engine, the compression temperature might not be high enough to ensure proper ignition of the injected diesel fuel, causing inconvenience to the driver and increased exhaust emissions. The glow plug - an electrical heating device - helps to solve this problem.

[Zulu95]

How did THEY manage to snap two off in the head. Sound like a bunch of hamfisted bodgers to me.

[Laurence]

Originally Posted by Zulu95

How did THEY manage to snap two off in the head. Sound like a bunch of hamfisted bodgers to me.

Who knows, although glow plugs are generally about a quater of the diameter of a spark plug, so they wouldn't have to be too tight in the head before they snapped.

Anyway, I'll be sure to post the outcome!!