An introduction...and a question on transmission/overall reliability.

[Pack66]

Hi all,

I've lurked here for a little bit and thought I'd introduce myself. I'm a regular guy looking into my 2nd possible BMW purchase. My first car was an ancient 316 (1979 or 1981 I think). For background, in the past I owned a 2002 Acura MDX Touring. If anyone here has had one, you know that the 01-03s had an issue with the transmission (same with the 01-03 Pilots/Odyssey Vans). Having had that happen to me (and thankfully having Honda/Acura North America take care of it gratis) has made me a little gun-shy towards vehicles with transmission issues.

Having said that, I'm looking to buy a used X5 (2001-2006). From reading this and other forums, I gather that some of the model years have a tendency for transmission failures. Is there a year/package that I should avoid as a general rule or is it just a game of roulette? For example, are the auto six speeds (04 and newer models I believe) more apt to fail then the five speeds? 3 Liter v. 4 Liter? 2001 - 2003s better than 2004-2006?

I was dead set on a 2004 or newer to get the six speed transmission, but I drove an 01 4.4i the other day that I really liked handling-wise. I had read a review somewhere (perhaps here) that someone felt the 01s were relatively "over built" compared to other years.

Anyway, I'd love to hear the forum's thoughts. Thanks in advance!

[Ghost-Flame]

From what I understand the 01 through 03 are E53 and are the same car.

I have an 02 , 3.0 100,000 miles trans works like new. good luck in your search.

I think it is a crape shoot.

[mark scheurer]

A lot of people feel the 3.0 motors exert less stress on the trans, causing it to last longer. However, one would think that the the trans is different between the two models.

Mrbmwx5 said that the 01s have better transmissions than the later years -- not sure why he said that.

If you do a search on the subject you will find lots of info.

My advice would be to try and find a car that has been gently driven.

[Pack66]

Mark,
I've done quite a bit of research on this and other forums. I believe this thread had quite a bit of info. Specifically post #59 perked my interest:

chilliwilli
Chillin' like a villain
Join Date: May 2005
Location: County of Kings
Posts: 1,413



Quote:
Originally Posted by dinan e39

...

chilli, it's total BS that the dealer is telling you it has anything to do with a performance motor. it's all tranny related. we on the e39 board have discussed this problem at length and i ended up replacing my tranny (e39 540i Touring w/ 120K miles at time of replacement). good luck with getting satisfaction.

I guess what they meant was that it's inherent to the performance models. I had the same issue with my previous 4.6iS at around 50K miles...had the Dinan S2 system installed and it was still present but not as bad. My current 4.6iS was purchased at low miles and experienced the rough downshift as early as 40K miles. I recently rebuilt the trany and installed updated oem torque converter @ 70K...it's still present!

I don't understand why they can't develop a similar remedy as they did for the 2004+ V8's...perhaps if we start a petition

I guess to clarify my question, is this correct? Were they able to correct the issue with 04-06s but not the earlier models?

[XV8]

Originally Posted by Pack66

Mark,
I've done quite a bit of research on this and other forums. I believe this thread had quite a bit of info. Specifically post #59 perked my interest:

[U][I]







I guess to clarify my question, is this correct? Were they able to correct the issue with 04-06s but not the earlier models?

Pack66,

I've purchased a 2003 4.6IS back in Feb 2009 and the X runs great. Until recently, I've had the "rough downshift" problem with the trans and "fail transsafe" msg from the in dash computer. Currently, my vehicle is being serviced at a BMW dealership (earlier diagnosed that I will need to replace my transmission). Fortunately, when I purchased this pre-owned at a reputable used car dealership, I picked up their 3rd party extended warranty. So far, it seems like they will be fronting most of the cost and I will have to pay a portion of BMW's insane hourly rate.

I would ask more questions from the seller if there's any pre-existing tranny issues. As BMW claimed, the V8 engines 4.4, 4.6 and 4.8 do have "rough downshift" problems and can be either fixed via software upgrade or worse off... new/replacement tranny. I share my costs once I hear from my SA.

Hope this helps.

Roger

[JCL]

I don't think there is any difference between an '01 and an '03. No difference in spec, or in reliability. The'04 onwards got the new Xdrive, and the new transmissions. A six speed is a bonus.

The transmissions in the 3.0 models are made by GM. Good transmissions. The transmissions in the 8 cylinder models are made by ZF, also good transmission. BMW took the basic transmission, and added in their own electronics package. That means sensors, controls, wiring harness, and programming. Those areas are where the problems are, and they are common across all models. If you doubt this, ask about window regulators, or bulb sockets, etc ad nauseum. Same reliability issues as the transmissions.

If you get a lower mileage vehicle, you have better odds. If you have a CPO warranty, even better. Apart from extreme cases of abuse, the transmissions don't seem to fail based on lack of maintenance, or power increases, or what have you. They do fail after high mileage fluid changes, but that is clearly due to the process of changing the fluid. Most often they are random failures, associated with electrical components in many cases. There are a few cases of mechanical failures, but even those can be caused by control system failures.

Just buy the vehicle you like, test drive it to see if it shifts OK, and stop worrying. Realize that at some point you may have to repair the transmissions. Worrying about it isn't going to make it go away, and will ruin your ride in the mean time. They are great vehicles, and random maintenance issues are part of the price of admission.

[e30mpower]

I'm with JCL -- random transmission failures are something to get accustomed to in any automatic BMW, you can't pinpoint which one it's going to affect, or when it's going to happen, so there's no point. It's been a hallmark BMW caveat since the late 90s. V8 or 6-cylinder, ZF or GM, 5 or 6-speed.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Get it certified pre-owned and get an extended warranty. I wouldn't buy it if it was already slipping though, or there were any other symptoms of imminent failure. A good BMW mechanic will be able to take it for a spin and evaluate the tranny.

My tranny is starting to show some signs of doom, but I'm not worrying about it. If it goes out, it goes out -- I'll drive the Merc long enough to build up the $3k - $4k to put a new transmission in it. I wouldn't consider getting rid of it.

The X has personality, you get to know its strengths, weaknesses, and eccentricities (like the window regulator that "pops," but only when specific people the X doesn't care for try to roll down the window), but at the end of the day I end up loving it even more because of those imperfections.

[Pack66]

Thanks for the information Roger, JCL, ECM,

I was afraid thats what everyone would say. I have heard issues about the ZF transmissions (from this forum, in fact). So maybe I'll look towards a 3.0. Roger, I would really be interested in your experience once you know the outcome. Especially what aftermarket warranty company you went what they did/did not pay.

All of the X5's I've look at have around 60k on them, so maybe I'll look for something newer...or a manual if I can find one.

Thanks again for the information!

[e30mpower]

Don't let the transmission be the deciding factor in what you get. If you love it, you love it. The newer it is though, and God forbid the transmission were to go out, BMW has been pretty good about offering goodwill replacements. There's been a couple of people on the board who have walked away with new transmissions courtesy of BMW NA. Just look for one with an intact service history, because the more money the dealer has made off of the car (not necessarily the owner), the more apt he will be to work with you. I wasted my one goodwill repair on the instrument cluster, kicking myself now.

[Werewolf]

Also search for water pump issues on the x5. Make sure you're comfortable with that before you buy