Is there enough transmission data available for a class action suit.

[Quicksilver]

Just looking at all the complaints around
here about transmissions and concluding
that the sited problems are not just here
on this site, I wonder if there's is enough
data for a recall.........

[JCL]

A recall or a class action suit? Two very different animals.

A recall would typically be based on the vehicle not meeting emissions laws, or a safety issue. Hard to see how a transmission failure meets either requirement.

A class action suit? It is a little hard to judge if that is reasonable, considering the litigious nature of the US (home to class action law suites). However, we are in the E53 forum, and they were last produced in 2006. So, they are all either out of warranty or are about to be. What would the claim be? Did BMW not honour the warranty on any transmission failures found to be due to product defects during the warranty period? Might be a challenge that the defect, if it exists, doesn't appear to apply to all potential members of the class, and it doesn't appear to be uniform (there is a random nature to the reported failures).

When the warranty is up, it is time to pay to repair the product when it wears out, or sell it and get a newer product. Lawsuits should be reserved for real issues. Just my $0.02.

[Quicksilver]

Listen JCL. I recognize you're a reasonable person. (snark snark)
But after reading all these transmission threads even you should
admit there has to be a problem... I did find it funny that after
76 views not one person wanted to get on board.
(You caught on. recall or a class action suit).....

Therefore In view of what apparently appears to be an abundance
of transmission complaints it seems to me that someone has to come
to the aid of all these past, present, and future deserving folks.
I'm a bit disappointed that someone didn't support this facetious, meandering,
sarcastic, pointless effort of mine to get attention for transmission
problems. (Even if it will happen to me someday).......

[JCL]

I don't think there is one problem, I think there are a number of problems. Some of the ZF transmissions have a specific problem, the solution for which is documented very well by swissfrank on this board. There are also random issues related to various versions of the software (shifting issues, clunks, etc). Then there are the failures reported at relatively low miles, within the warranty period. Beyond that, the transmissions have a specific problem in that they don't last forever. I just don't think that last one is actionable, however.

There is so much discussion of transmission issues that new and prospective owners ask if they should buy a BMW because of the transmission issues. Others have a driveline failure, or engine issue, and immediately assume they need a new transmission. I think we talk about transmissions (and window regulators, and oil separator valves) because much of the rest of the vehicle is so solid that there isn't much to say.

Automatic transmissions have been failing from the day after they were invented. Companies like Aamco, Mr. Transmission, etc, have built an entire industry on the issue. Yet somehow BMW (who doesn't even make transmissions, but just installs transmissions from GM, ZF, etc) should be sued? Under an assumed lifetime warranty approach? Just think what that would do to the price of new cars.

No are wrestle on the transmission issues. I just struggle to see how lawyers and a sense of entitlement on the part of those who own a used car are going to help.

But then, you knew all this and just wanted a debate. Happy to oblige

[LeMansX5]

Originally Posted by JCL

No are wrestle on the transmission issues. I just struggle to see how lawyers and a sense of entitlement on the part of those who own a used car are going to help.

But then, you knew all this and just wanted a debate. Happy to oblige

Quciksilver-->

[mywidebody02]

had mine replaced at 70,000 miles under the CPO. If i dint have the CPO i would be F<>?n pissed.

[Laurence]

Originally Posted by JCL

I don't think there is one problem, I think there are a number of problems.

JCL has hit the nail on the head.

BMW treats the gearbox as a unit and will not try to repair the fault – as far as they are concerned, it is a sealed unit. Whilst there have been specific faults reported with certain types of gearbox (for example BMW had some failures of ZF gearboxes losing reverse due to premature failure of mechanical parts) a Trans Fail Mode can be caused by any number of things. If, for example, something as simple as an electronic solenoid failed, it would cause a Trans Fail Mode and render the whole gearbox as faulty and the car un-drivable. The BMW answer is to swap out the whole thing – where the solenoid itself could cost less than $100 to replace.
This is analogues to replacing an engine because a single sensor failed.

However, auto transmissions do wear out – it’s a fact of life. They have friction plates and by default these will wear and at some point will need replacing. The rate of wear will be determined by driving style.


A transmission shop that services and warrants a gearbox will (should!) replace everything that can/will wear, its time consuming and that’s why replacements are expensive.

I’m sure as the X5’s get older (and worth less!) more DIY capable people may be inclined to investigate the cause of their auto transmission failure. I would suspect that a greater number of the (low mileage < 100,000) failures are caused by electronic faults than mechanical ones.
And remember, all the electronics can be accessed from the bottom of the gearbox without removing it, indeed the whole valve body assembley can be removed with the gearbox in situ. I for one will be looking there first if/when my gearbox "dies"!

[X5Sport]

I suspect a class action will be difficult unless the actual failure mode is common. In the UK we do have a law that makes the Supplier liable for any 'premature' failures for 6 years from the point of sale but there's a catch. After 6 months of ownership it is down to the owner to prove that the fault existed at manufacture - and that means having a tear down and full engineering report at your own expense with little chance of getting that money back. BMW's attitude to my premature failure at <42k miles surprised both me, the dealers concerned and the warranty company. All of us expected goodwill, but BMW GB turned the request down as I had a warranty from someone else.

Part of the problem is actually finding out what the real failure mose is. Because BMW do not allow any maintenance/repair of the units, just replace the whole thing the failed unit disappears into a repair shop and we never find out what broke. In the US you have a Freedom of Information Action with wider powers that in the UK where the FOI Act is limited in its scope and it is probably unlikely that BMW would provide details of what failed, why, at how many miles and on what vehicle. I only know what has happened to mine becuase the warranty company refused to accept that a complete new box was required and that it could not be repaired. The specialist gearbox repairer has told me it was the TC and that led to consequential damage downstream of the AT oil pump. But mine may be the only one that has ever had this failure mode - I don't know, and BMW aren't going to say!! THe repairer has not seen may ZF 6 speeds yet as they are still relatively new in terms service life. They had not see this particular failure before but had seen mechatronics modules and lock up clutches go early.

Believe you me I'm p!ssed about BMW's Customer Service (and we have problems on a 3-series all of which are well known but again BMW GB isn't bothered), and I would love to have them accept that the chances are it was a manufacturing fault, but that just won't happen and they've walked away. This same box is used on a number of other vehicles which I am lead to believe includes possibly LandRover and Jaguar, and they too have failures. I'm not a lawyer (there may be members here who are) but I suspect that as much as I would want to sue BMW for use of a bad transmission design, they in turn would probably have to sue ZF (or GM) so any action could take years, and no matter how mad we all might be unless everyone stopped buying BMW because of bad transmissions I don't think they care - certainly not in my experience with them anyway. If the press managed to carry out an investigation then that might reveal a much wider problem with auto's in general but that still doesn't make it BMW's fault. They bought a standard off the shelf product and warranted it for three years, after that it's not their problem - same with anything else you buy in this day and age. I wish it was different.

And even if there is a problem with the ZF box - what is it going to be replaced with? I would get involved in a Class Action, but the burden of proof against BMW and ZF could be very hard to get. I'm as frustrated as any other owner who's been hit by this. As an owner and also as an engineer I want to know 'why'? I just wish I knew what the right answer was and had the clout with BMW in Germany to go and ask them to explain all of this and what they might do about it in support of all of us who have had faults on supposed luxury cars.

EDITED 21/05/2010 - new information
I have just got my X back again after a month off the road. The tranny rebuild did not clear the fault and I still had very bad shifting in 2nd/3rd/4th and it was subsequently discovered that the Mechatronics module had also failed - or may have failed at the start and caused the lock-up clutch breakage by sending a wrongly timed pulse into the system which destroyed the box in December 2009.

A replacement from ZF has been fitted and programmed, but comes with a 'health warning' about the shifting taking about 2 weeks to settle down properly. Hopefully this will finally clear all the issues up. So the current scorecard reads - Mechatronics Module, Major Overhaul Kit, Oil Pump, Torque converter, Oil Filter, Fluids & Gaskets all replaced (and 10 weeks off the road!!)

[X5Dawg]

Class action suits only make money for the lawyers filing them...

[m5james]

Originally Posted by Laurence

JCL has hit the nail on the head.

BMW treats the gearbox as a unit and will not try to repair the fault – as far as they are concerned, it is a sealed unit. Whilst there have been specific faults reported with certain types of gearbox (for example BMW had some failures of ZF gearboxes losing reverse due to premature failure of mechanical parts) a Trans Fail Mode can be caused by any number of things. If, for example, something as simple as an electronic solenoid failed, it would cause a Trans Fail Mode and render the whole gearbox as faulty and the car un-drivable. The BMW answer is to swap out the whole thing – where the solenoid itself could cost less than $100 to replace.
This is analogues to replacing an engine because a single sensor failed.

However, auto transmissions do wear out – it’s a fact of life. They have friction plates and by default these will wear and at some point will need replacing. The rate of wear will be determined by driving style.


A transmission shop that services and warrants a gearbox will (should!) replace everything that can/will wear, its time consuming and that’s why replacements are expensive.

I’m sure as the X5’s get older (and worth less!) more DIY capable people may be inclined to investigate the cause of their auto transmission failure. I would suspect that a greater number of the (low mileage < 100,000) failures are caused by electronic faults than mechanical ones.
And remember, all the electronics can be accessed from the bottom of the gearbox without removing it, indeed the whole valve body assembley can be removed with the gearbox in situ. I for one will be looking there first if/when my gearbox &quot;dies&quot;!

BMW Reverse Transmission Problems - based on the fact that BMW's cost sometimes 2-3 as much as some other makes of cars, yet their transmissions last 1/3 the life is appauling. Something needs to change.