For everyone with Trans issues - tried cleaning the valve assembly?

[flatlander]

Most transmission fluid documents say that the primary cause of fluid reaching the end of its life is oxidation and breakdown from heat cycles. Contamination from the wear of internal parts is secondary.

[Dickster]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

I have to ask... I've been reading a LOT lately about Tranny software updates/reflashes, adaption resets and valve body flushes/removal to clean thoroughly as I am now experiencing myself more often the "kick" when vehicle shifts from 2 down to 1st and sometimes during a rolling stop then accel from a roll I get the "rear ended" feeling...

I just spoke with a major tranny chain repair manager here and he asked/told me a few things...
Why are the valve bodies becoming dirty? the fluid is too dark from friction materials or something in the fluid is gunking up the valve body... then a valve body cleaning will clean the current problems out but WHY is it getting dirty in the first place is the question he proposed to me... he said the big picture here is not valve bodies being dirty but what is wearing down to cause dirty in the fluid. And as soon as you replace the fluid it will start to dirty right away again. AKA you are just prolonging the inevitable.
Its known that tranny's adapt to driving/time/kms driven (tranny brain adapts because it learns to drive the most optimal way with parts the tranny expects to be wearing over time)
As for people performing the tranny adaption reset he said that the vehicle resets its "learnings" from the drivers behaviour/amount of wear and tear on tranny parts and now the tranny thinks all parts are new and therefore will exert more hydraulic pressure/forces on parts that are in fact worn down (hence dirty fluid and potentially dirtied valve bodies) and the degradation of the tranny parts will be even FASTER now since the tranny has been reset.

So from speaking with him (and I'm not saying he is correct) I have to ask, for people who have done the valve body rebuilds, have you ever noticed symptoms again shortly (within a year or two) after the cleaning performed? If so that confirms the cleaning is just a band-aid to a larger problem (what is causing it to become dirty).
just thinking out loud...

Our new to us 2005 has the same 2-1 thud when coming to a stop - otherwise performs great. I am getting the software upgrade in a few days - fingers crossed...

[Dickster]

Originally Posted by thrillcat

Mine is in the shop today trying to find a leak in the rear air suspension - pressure testing air lines and compressor, new Arnott bags last week didn't solve my leak.

While they have it in there I told them to reflash the transmission software. For $100 it's worth a shot. I've got an issue where when accelerating, if I'm not really getting on it, it feels like it's shifting from 3-4 too soon and then it just feels like there's nothing there until the RPMs get back up. If I'm driving more aggressively it doesn't do it. If I slip it over into sport shifting, it doesn't do it, but in sport shifting, I get the rough 2-1, which doesn't happen in the normal mode.

So, like I said, I have the software but I'd hate to brick my transmission. For $100 I'll let them handle it with their AutoLogic.

I'll post back if I notice any difference.

any luck with the software upgrade?

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

I have to ask... I've been reading a LOT lately about Tranny software updates/reflashes, adaption resets and valve body flushes/removal to clean thoroughly as I am now experiencing myself more often the "kick" when vehicle shifts from 2 down to 1st and sometimes during a rolling stop then accel from a roll I get the "rear ended" feeling...

I just spoke with a major tranny chain repair manager here and he asked/told me a few things...
Why are the valve bodies becoming dirty? the fluid is too dark from friction materials or something in the fluid is gunking up the valve body... then a valve body cleaning will clean the current problems out but WHY is it getting dirty in the first place is the question he proposed to me... he said the big picture here is not valve bodies being dirty but what is wearing down to cause dirty in the fluid. And as soon as you replace the fluid it will start to dirty right away again. AKA you are just prolonging the inevitable.
Its known that tranny's adapt to driving/time/kms driven (tranny brain adapts because it learns to drive the most optimal way with parts the tranny expects to be wearing over time)
As for people performing the tranny adaption reset he said that the vehicle resets its "learnings" from the drivers behaviour/amount of wear and tear on tranny parts and now the tranny thinks all parts are new and therefore will exert more hydraulic pressure/forces on parts that are in fact worn down (hence dirty fluid and potentially dirtied valve bodies) and the degradation of the tranny parts will be even FASTER now since the tranny has been reset.

So from speaking with him (and I'm not saying he is correct) I have to ask, for people who have done the valve body rebuilds, have you ever noticed symptoms again shortly (within a year or two) after the cleaning performed? If so that confirms the cleaning is just a band-aid to a larger problem (what is causing it to become dirty).
just thinking out loud...

There are many things we can pinpoint the cause of a problem here but it doesn't seem like that happens with automatic transmissions. I don't ever recall any consistency on what the problem is or what to do that will always fix it. We can't even agree on whether or not to replace the fluid. I agree with you. Going to a transmission specialist is the best thing to do to get accurate input and I also think that is who should do the diagnosis and do the transmission repair. I don't think it is DIY project that we should tackle if we need help figuring out what is wrong or instructions to do the repair.

[upallnight]

A rebuilt valve body for the ZF 5HP24 trans is available here.

5HP24 OEM Valve Body (BMW) X5 AWD

[bcredliner]

As long as we are talking transmissions--ever hear of anybody replacing the 5 speed transmission with a 6 speed or the later 7 or 8 speed transmissions?

[Dickster]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

There are many things we can pinpoint the cause of a problem here but it doesn't seem like that happens with automatic transmissions. I don't ever recall any consistency on what the problem is or what to do that will always fix it. We can't even agree on whether or not to replace the fluid. I agree with you. Going to a transmission specialist is the best thing to do to get accurate input and I also think that is who should do the diagnosis and do the transmission repair. I don't think it is DIY project that we should tackle if we need help figuring out what is wrong or instructions to do the repair.

I agree, I have searched the net for hours for an answer, but there are none.

[Dickster]

Okay, we just had ours fixed. Took it to a specialist who has rebuilt lots of X5's trans. He advised that at 100k they all need rebuilding.

He showed me the parts he replaced:

New bushes
New clutch bands (or is it brake bands?)
Torque convertor sent away for rebuild
And he mentioned some egg cup holder like things that have rubber in them - act like shock absorbers(?). He said the rubber flattens with age, and they modify them by using springs.

Anyway, after a week of driving it is flawless, and the 2-1 jolt downshift has gone - so fingers crossed....

[upallnight]

Hopefully they also replaced the pressure regulator. There's a Youtuber that made a couple of great videos on the zf 5hp24.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLOHh6vDjFo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=220WEEtaMk0

[Dickster]

Thanks for that! I mentioned inspection not replacement?

He also mentioned the rubber dampers....

I'm just going to drive and not worry about it.