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  #21  
Old 05-02-2010, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGodfather View Post
I am pretty sure upgrades on a 4.4 engine would be very worth it. And improvement felt would be much more obvious than on a 3.0
You really think a maximum 9 ft/lb hp and 11 ft/lb tq increase can be felt more in a 4.4 and not in a 3.0?
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louniex View Post
I also have the same question but on a 4.4. Would I see any "real" difference just upgrading the engine software and tranny software?
There is a CAI thread w/ a poll asking if anyone actually felt a difference or if it was placebo from spending the type of money $$Dinan$$ charges. It has some interestingly replies...mostly along the lines of no and that it only sounds louder.

I think the biggest problem is they do one or the other...software or physical mods, when in fact they should be installed together as a system.

For me. I installed a pre-VANOS intake manifold for $50 from a wrecked 7 series...the same one $$Dinan$$ sells for well over $1000. Paired w/ some www.powerchipusa.com software and its a whole different machine. Next is a BBK setup yanked from a 750I'll for $200...anyone wanna guess what $$Dinan$$ charges?
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650hp 10 X5///M - Stage 2, Vibrant 1794's , gutted cats, custom intake, AC Forged 22's
325hp 98 BMW 740iL - ///M5 6spd, www.bavengine.com w/ Performance Option, electric fan, CF intake tube w/ heatshield, Mag 14816 w/ notched bumper, Bilstein/H&R Stage II/Powerflex

600+hp 02 Harley F150 - MHP900 Stage 3 engine, KB2.3, 8# lower, 60# inj, Walbro FP's

135hp 01 TL1000R - M4 full exhaust, K&N, Yosh box, -1/+2 gears, 2CT's
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2010, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieHustleX5 View Post
You really think a maximum 9 ft/lb hp and 11 ft/lb tq increase can be felt more in a 4.4 and not in a 3.0?
I had thought that the same upgrades to a base 4.4 engine would result in more significant torque and hp gains because of the higher output capacity of the engine to begin with. Perhaps I am referring more to the maximum performance gains.

I suppose you are correct, 9 hp added to a ~225 hp car is quite significant compared to 9 to a ~280 (cant quite remember the specs)
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Last edited by TheGodfather; 05-02-2010 at 03:00 AM.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2010, 11:18 PM
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335 HP on X5 3.0i

Has any one tried this mod??

2001-2006 X5 3.0 7PSI VT1 CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGER SYSTEM (108-41)Please enquire

Variant Code: xxesssck*3638


Click to Enlarge

Click to Enlarge

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Suitable for: X5 (E53), X3 (E83).

Description
The system features 6 larger Bosch injectors and a fully re-programmed engine management system for exceptional power gains, with civilized everyday driveability. The system maintains all OBD-II functions. It is backed by a comprehensive 2 year, unlimited mileage warranty and a supplemental powertrain warranty is also available which covers factory drivetrain components potentially affected by the supercharger installation for the remaining term of the vehicle manufacturer''s new car warranty, up to 4 years or 50,000 miles. The system installs in 8-10 hours using normal hand tools and no irreversible modifications to the car is necessary.

-335HP DIN (7PSI)
-Vortech V2SQ Supercharger unit.
-One belt driven w/self tension system.
-CNC Machined, hard anodized brackets.
-CNC Pulleys.
-Long life serpentine drive belt.
-6 Larger Bosch injectors.
-Recalibrated MAF (airflow sensor).
-True OBDII, optimized performance ECU supercharger software with removed top speed governor, improved throttle response programming and 6800RPM limit.
-All powder-coated mandrel bent tubing w/ K&N cold air intake located inside front bumper.
-Bosch bypass-valve system.
-Oil pressure and return system.
-Oil breather assembly.
-2yr./unlimted mileage warranty.
-16 page, 37 step detailed and illustrated (54 photos) installation manual.
-100% maintenance free operation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boost pressure: 7 PSI
Horsepower: 335 DIN (Stock 225/231)
Torque: 415 NM (Stock 300)
0 - 60: Man : 6 sec, Aut : 6,4 sec

PLEASE NOW REFER TO THE LINK AT THE BOTTOM FOR THE FULL ESS PRICE AND APPLICATION LIST

ESS PRICE LIST

Fitting Time: 9.00 hours.
Estimated Installation Cost at CA Workshops: £585.00 inc VAT
CA: ESS SUPERCHARGING SYSTEMS X3 & X5 SUPERCHARGER KITS (Variants)
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  #25  
Old 05-03-2010, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullsbmwx5 View Post
335 HP on X5 3.0i

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boost pressure: 7 PSI
Horsepower: 335 DIN (Stock 225/231)
Torque: 415 NM (Stock 300)
0 - 60: Man : 6 sec, Aut : 6,4 sec

PLEASE NOW REFER TO THE LINK AT THE BOTTOM FOR THE FULL ESS PRICE AND APPLICATION LIST

ESS PRICE LIST

Fitting Time: 9.00 hours.
Estimated Installation Cost at CA Workshops: £585.00 inc VAT
CA: ESS SUPERCHARGING SYSTEMS X3 & X5 SUPERCHARGER KITS (Variants)
This costs about $10,000+

You would have to be a nut job to spend 10g's upgrading a 3.0 engine.

Why not just sell the 3.0 and buy a 4.8?
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2010, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGodfather View Post
This costs about $10,000+

You would have to be a nut job to spend 10g's upgrading a 3.0 engine.

Why not just sell the 3.0 and buy a 4.8?
.....Unless you can find the SC for much less, there's no point.
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  #27  
Old 05-05-2010, 02:06 PM
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In stock form the 3.0 engine is very small on power, but don't underestimate what the 3.0 is capable of vs the 4.4, 4.6, or 4.8 engine. BMW I6's are notorious for loving boost, and if given the right recipe, will destroy any V8 powered X5...minus maybe the X5M. Spend some time on the FI forums of the Bimmerboard, Bimmerfest, E46fanatics, etc and you'll see what I mean.

Sure, spending 10k on a 3.0 might seem useless now, but when the truck itself is only selling for 10k, spending 20k total for having X5M power at 1/6th the cost isn't so unreasonable. It all depends on the persons personal modification goals. I almost bought an 3.0 5speed years ago, but then I came across the black on black 740iL I still have now. Had I gotten the X5, it was the perfect package just screaming for boost. Had I known (at the time) all that I'd be spending on my V8 powered engine just to get it ready for boost, I still wonder how much closer I'd be to my goals. Had I just gotten the X5 instead way back, I'd probably be there since I'm well over 15k in mods to my 740iL, and it's not even boosted yet

In reply again to the OP's original question...it's my opinion that $$Dinan$$ is a complete waste of money in that they are WAY WAY WAY overpriced and known to be on the conversative side of power compared to other tuners. They WERE the company to goto back in the day, but there are easily 4-5 other companies doing the same things they offer for far less. The only time I'd ever suggest $$Dinan$$ to anyone is if they're still under the factory warranty or a Certified vehicle since they warranty is the same as purchasing a stock BMW, hence why they're on the more conversative side of HP...safety and warranty. For anyone past their warranty period, they are the last place I'd goto. After owning a handful of factory (MR2T, RX7TT, F350TD, etc) and even aftermarket FI (Tacoma V6, R6, R1) vehicles, $$Dinan$$ has the the WORST power per dollar ratio of anyone in the market, period...but some people just love the bragging rights of the badge.
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650hp 10 X5///M - Stage 2, Vibrant 1794's , gutted cats, custom intake, AC Forged 22's
325hp 98 BMW 740iL - ///M5 6spd, www.bavengine.com w/ Performance Option, electric fan, CF intake tube w/ heatshield, Mag 14816 w/ notched bumper, Bilstein/H&R Stage II/Powerflex

600+hp 02 Harley F150 - MHP900 Stage 3 engine, KB2.3, 8# lower, 60# inj, Walbro FP's

135hp 01 TL1000R - M4 full exhaust, K&N, Yosh box, -1/+2 gears, 2CT's

Last edited by m5james; 05-05-2010 at 02:19 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-05-2010, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james View Post
In stock form the 3.0 engine is very small on power, but don't underestimate what the 3.0 is capable of vs the 4.4, 4.6, or 4.8 engine. BMW I6's are notorious for loving boost, and if given the right recipe, will destroy any V8 powered X5...
OK, I'll bite. Give me this "recipe" for how you plan to have a blown 3.0 X5 beat a naturally aspirated 4.8is. Without using nitrous oxide and blowing the I6 to kingdom-come after 2 traffic light races. I'm talking about a mod where the pistons are still in one piece 6 months later.
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2010, 08:58 PM
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I'm gonna act like you're not being smug towards me w/ the little popcorn smiley

Turbo
Turbo manifold
Intercooler (depending on HP, but not always needed)
Custom intake piping (easier part, hence why I laugh at $$Dinan$$ $300+ intakes)
Boost controller (manual for $20, electronic for $200)
Fuel pressure regulator
Higher volume fuel pump (depends on HP demands) if the stock pump isn't sufficient
Tuning via either a piggyback (choose your weapon) or custom software (it's getting cheaper and cheaper nowadays, some doing if from home via laptop)
About 5-8k laying around, which is still a decent amount, but the gains will be higher

I've driven a custom, single turbo'ed E34 540i w/ an M62 swap, Unichip piggyback (same system I used on my Tacoma) running around 450hp. For the case of my 740iL, VFEngineering makes an centrifugal S/C system for around 6k, but it's very limited on power, not intercooled and the sweet spot of the power (like most centrifugals) is in the higher revs. I've been considering going something like www.ststurbo.com, either single or dual turbo so I don't have to deal w/ having custom headers made, not to mention the added heat to an already hot and prone-to-overheating engine bay in the V8.

As I said above, check over on the FI forums on the boards I listed above. 3 series and I6 equipped 5 series BMW guys have been throwing boost at the I6 LONG LONG LONG before an X5 ever rolled off the assembly line. This might be an extreme example, and he's since rebuilt the motor, but it shows what just ONE person was able to get from a dinky little 1997 2.8 - www.bmwturbo328.com Mind you, he got like what, 600hp and countless 1/4 runs before he even had a single issue w/ the motor...and that's a 2.8!!

Point is, the I6, while less power in stock form, is for more reliable and tuneable than any V8 for the simple fact...there are thousands upon thousands of I6 owners who modify their cars vs V8 owners. Does reliability go down as you add more power, sure...but that's the case w/ any engine, so you gotta pay to play. It can be argued that adding an intake, exhaust and software (it should be done as a package) could theoretically lower reliability since I guarantee you will be driving the car harder. It's a moot point though because those who modify should also expect a certain detriment of change in longevity, otherwise they'd stay stock because they simply don't care to modify in the first place.

Do I believe that a turbo'ed I6 running a mild 6-8psi will last 6 months or more...abso-friggin-lutely!! Are there cases of where $$Dinan$$ first got into the FI game w/ the M62 V8 and had MAJOR blow-by issues before they switched to the Vortech V2 or V2SQ...abso-friggin-lutely. Did people still pay for $12,000 to $15,000 for their systems...abso-friggin-lutely. Does spending the most money for mods GUARANTEE the best quality...abso-lutely-friggin not!!! Ask any pre Vortech SC owner, or the handful of people who had their motors build for obscene amounts of money by the guys at D/A Motorsports to twin supercharge their 540/M5 engines, only to have catastrophic failures. Hell, look at resale of BMW's in general vs brand neww...ask anyone who bought an X5 brand new if they got their money's worth on their 60k SAV and are spending thousands of dollars to this day on repairing the issues we speak or regularily. Spending large sums of money guarantees nothing except that the seller will definately have a thicker wallet.
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650hp 10 X5///M - Stage 2, Vibrant 1794's , gutted cats, custom intake, AC Forged 22's
325hp 98 BMW 740iL - ///M5 6spd, www.bavengine.com w/ Performance Option, electric fan, CF intake tube w/ heatshield, Mag 14816 w/ notched bumper, Bilstein/H&R Stage II/Powerflex

600+hp 02 Harley F150 - MHP900 Stage 3 engine, KB2.3, 8# lower, 60# inj, Walbro FP's

135hp 01 TL1000R - M4 full exhaust, K&N, Yosh box, -1/+2 gears, 2CT's

Last edited by m5james; 05-05-2010 at 09:21 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-06-2010, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanF18 View Post
OK, I'll bite. Give me this "recipe" for how you plan to have a blown 3.0 X5 beat a naturally aspirated 4.8is. Without using nitrous oxide and blowing the I6 to kingdom-come after 2 traffic light races. I'm talking about a mod where the pistons are still in one piece 6 months later.
Off topic alert.


the 2011 X5 35i is I6 turbo (twin scroll) with $699 tune will outrun 4.8i. and you'll have 6 pistons even after waranty is over guarantee, the same number of pistons you start with.

But 2011 X5 50i kinda scarry, it has detuned version of X5-M engine, twin scroll turbos fed by 8 exhaust manifold (it's like having 4 turbos), virtually no lag. If speed important gets 2011 X5 50i with tune that thing will be the best thing after sliced-bread.

My only concern of 4.4i TT (on 50i or M version) is it share the same block as our N62 4.4i, can someone spell valley-pan gasket for me?
Hint2, both the twin scroll turbos sit in the valley so have to be removed in fixing the VP leaks, ouch.
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