Adding engine oil

[JCL]

Originally Posted by AZX54.4

I have been considering using TOTAL/elf 5w-30 motor oil. It comes highly recommended.

Originally Posted by AZX54.4

In Phoenix,AZ. My indy sells it and autohausaz.com sells it.
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From that link:

Engine Oil; TOTAL Quartz INEO MC3 5W30, Full Synthetic; 1 Liter Bottle
A fully synthetic motor oil formulated to meet or exceed German car manufacturer specifications including low-sulfur diesel: BMW Longlife LL04, Mercedes p.229.51, Audi/VW 502.00/505.00/505.01, in addition to ACEA04: A3/B4/C3 and API: SM/CF. Compatible with particulate filter and other post-treatment filter systems. Please verify owners manual recommendations prior to ordering

The INEO MC3 is the only 5W30 oil shown in that link. It would be a really bad idea to put that in your gasoline engine in North America. While it can be used outside North America, BMW published a TIS advising not to use any LL04 oils on gasoline engines outside of Europe. Probably has to do with fuel composition, likely sulphur and ethanol content. The LL04 has a low TBN. Works well on a diesel, though. LL04 is designed to work well with a diesel particulate filter, but it gives up protection in other areas.

This isn't just about Total/Elf oils; no LL04 oil whether Castrol or Mobil should be used unless required. Total do have other oils that aren't LL04 in a 5W-30 grade, but they are either LL98 or LL01. Question is, why would you want to use an oil that only meets 10 or 13 year old specifications when there are much better oils out there?

[AZX54.4]

Originally Posted by JCL

From that link:

Engine Oil; TOTAL Quartz INEO MC3 5W30, Full Synthetic; 1 Liter Bottle
A fully synthetic motor oil formulated to meet or exceed German car manufacturer specifications including low-sulfur diesel: BMW Longlife LL04, Mercedes p.229.51, Audi/VW 502.00/505.00/505.01, in addition to ACEA04: A3/B4/C3 and API: SM/CF. Compatible with particulate filter and other post-treatment filter systems. Please verify owners manual recommendations prior to ordering

The INEO MC3 is the only 5W30 oil shown in that link. It would be a really bad idea to put that in your gasoline engine in North America. While it can be used outside North America, BMW published a TIS advising not to use any LL04 oils on gasoline engines outside of Europe. Probably has to do with fuel composition, likely sulphur and ethanol content. The LL04 has a low TBN. Works well on a diesel, though. LL04 is designed to work well with a diesel particulate filter, but it gives up protection in other areas.

This isn't just about Total/Elf oils; no LL04 oil whether Castrol or Mobil should be used unless required. Total do have other oils that aren't LL04 in a 5W-30 grade, but they are either LL98 or LL01. Question is, why would you want to use an oil that only meets 10 or 13 year old specifications when there are much better oils out there?

You bring up a very valid point. I did not know about this difference with the TOTAL/elf oil. Now taking this into consideration I don't think I would use this oil for a US car. I am curious why this local indy is using it? It seems like there is some hype around using this oil but they are not looking at the facts. Im sticking to Mobil 1 for now!
I just found another thread where this was discussed.
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...r-mistake.html

[JCL]

Originally Posted by AZX54.4

I am curious why this local indy is using it? It seems like there is some hype around using this oil but they are not looking at the facts.

IMO, because they don't know any better, and are not subscribing to the BMW technical bulletins. They are relying on the fact that the Total oil says "designed for BMW" on the bottle.

[AZX54.4]

Originally Posted by JCL

IMO, because they don't know any better, and are not subscribing to the BMW technical bulletins. They are relying on the fact that the Total oil says "designed for BMW" on the bottle.

I think you are right on this. They are going for the "cool factor" that they are using a more common name brand oil.

[FCBuff]

I like Castrol 0W-30 better known as German Castrol or GC. It meets BMW LL-01 and is generally thought to be a great oil. I use it anywhere a 30 weight is called for, and I have been using it in my X5. Mobil 1 0W-40 is also always a great choice. Both are readily available, although the Castrol is a little harder to find (Autozone/Pep boys). You can find either on sale quite often.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by FCBuff

I like Castrol 0W-30 better known as German Castrol or GC. It meets BMW LL-01 and is generally thought to be a great oil. I use it anywhere a 30 weight is called for, and I have been using it in my X5. Mobil 1 0W-40 is also always a great choice. Both are readily available, although the Castrol is a little harder to find (Autozone/Pep boys). You can find either on sale quite often.

I like Castrol Syntec 5W-30, or Mobil 1 (probably 0W-40 instead of their 5W-30). Most of the time I just use the dealer 5W-30 (which I don't think is GC) as it is a good oil, and is as cheap as others.

My question is why you look to the LL-01 spec? It was current 10 years ago in 2001, and an API SJ oil could meet it just fine. It is a low standard, and the only oils that advertise it today seem to be those which haven't been reformulated in 10 years, or those marketed by smaller producers who want to leverage cachet of the BMW private test. I wouldn't use an SJ oil today in any engine that I cared about; SL if necessary, but preferably SM which is a far tougher spec.

I just think that the LL spec has faded into obscurity, overtaken by better oils, and the existence of newer, tougher, standards which mean that BMW and others don't need to have their private tests any more. We even see people opting for LL-04 oils when they are a step backwards in some respects (gasoline engines outside of Europe, where they break down before the recommended change interval). I still see oils advertising BMW LL98 certification, and that is completely archaic.

Trying to keep this away from the "which oil is better" debate, but I am wondering, do others give any credence to BMW LL standards with respect to modern oils?

[BlackMamba]

I topped mine off with Castrol 5W30, synthetic, before I went on a long drive, L.A.-PHX-Sedona-Grand Canyon-L.A... about 1500 miles. Still have 3 green service bars left. Just an awesome drive. The full nose mask kept the bugs and rocks away, too. Yup, anyways, Castrol or Mobil 1.

[FCBuff]

This is why. Taken by me, today from BMWUSA's website. These are the only "approved" oils on BMW's list if you chose to get something other that BMW Castrol 5W-30. They still use LL-01 as the standard whether or not you think it is outdated.


BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

• Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
• Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
• Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
• Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

All are good oils. I choose to use Castrol 0W-30 (GC) because it is easier for me to obtain (Autozone) than going to the dealer. It is arguably a superior oil and I can get it on sale for around $5.00/qt. It is also more compatible due to similar chemistry/composition to the BMW 5W-30 which will be put in by the dealer. I change my own oil every 5K, some choose 7.5K miles, but since my X5 is CPO it will occasionally get dealer oil. I do feel there is a benefit to consistency in oil selection and not hopping from brand to brand with different additive pkg's etc. BMW 5W-30 is fine, just a personal decision on my part to use the 0W-30. It (GC) gets rave reviews on BITOG and I drank the koolaid! I have used Mobil 1 0W-40 for years in my AUDI's with great results. It is good oil and would be my 2nd choice. PP also gets rave reviews on BITOG, though I have never used it. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the choices especially if you cut the OCI in at least half.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by FCBuff

This is why. Taken by me, today from BMWUSA's website. These are the only "approved" oils on BMW's list if you chose to get something other that BMW Castrol 5W-30. They still use LL-01 as the standard whether or not you think it is outdated.


BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

• Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
• Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
• Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
• Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

There was another thread on this not too long ago, so I don't want to rehash it all, but there is confusion around the concept of approved oils. I think we need to read that phrase on BMWUSA in full context.

BMWUSA actually seem to say that LL approved oils are acceptable, and the following four oils are approved to meet the LL-01 spec. I don't think they are saying that only those oils are approved for a new BMW. The actual requirement is simply that the oil meet an API-SM spec. That seems to fit with your Magnusson-Moss act as well, in that it doesn't impose preconditions for warranty that can't be shown to be reasonable. The phrasing seems to include carefully chosen words designed to engender confusion, IMO, because the oils aren't the only ones approved for the US market, they are just the only ones that meet the 2001 standard and have API-SM certification.

The oils listed below meet BMW's Long-life rating and are acceptable for use in BMW Passenger vehicles and SAVs in the US market with gasoline engines.


BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

• Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
• Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
• Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
• Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

Use only oils with an API rating of SM or higher.

It gets even better when you see that the owner's manuals (up through the 2009 version that is posted on this site) say to use LL-04 in the US, even though they have specifically said not to do so in BMW technical bulletins.

My last two new BMWs came with owner's manuals that make no mention whatsoever of the LL specifications, relying only on API standards (this is in Canada, not the US). It just seems that the LL standard is dying out, thankfully, but maybe not so quickly in the USA and within BMW's marketing organization there.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the oils you mention, they are all great oils. It is just that I would use them for that reason, and not because they have an LL-01 stamp (because there are lots of LL-01 labelled oils that don't meet current specs)

[gitchies]

Crap!!! i'm a little paranoid now....my indy shop has been feeding me Quartz Total.....the LL04. I haven't checked on oil consumption...i'll be doing it today....