x5 - how often need to change spark plugs if at all?

[admranger]

Originally Posted by FSETH

Do you guys change the air in your tires every 6 months as well?

I just rotate the air to ensure even wear on the inside of the tire.

[m5james]

Originally Posted by FSETH

BMW radiators are notorious for the plastic neck cracking. The radiators in my e36 and well as my e53 broke at that particular spot. It is very common.

As far as overheating goes, Zionsville actually sells an aluminum thermostat housing with mechanical thermostat becuase they have found that the m54 straight six has failed due to overheating more than any other BMW engine in recent history. They sell this kit for the straight six in the e36, e46, e53, e39, e60 and others. They don't carry any kit like this for the V8 e53. So, it would seem like the sixes actually run hotter. That is what they say anyway.

I think basic maintenance is basic maintenance, regardless of whether it is a V8 or straight six. Sure some things will be different, but simple things like oil, filters, plugs, etc are the same across the board unless you are talking about an M car.

I think people are snapping up used 5, 7 and X models cheap across the baord. Not just V8 versions of these cars. The V8 5 series and X models are still more expensive than the straight six equipped ones. It is not like you can get more for a straight six 530i than you could for a 540i if all else is equal. The reason these cars are depreciating is that everything on them is expensive to fix and in many cases, the car falls apart around the engine.

I have no problem with people going overboard with maintenance what ever the reason is, but I don't think that changing spark plugs 3 times as often as the manufacturer recommends and even twice as much as Mike Miller's old school maintenance schedule recommends is necessary or even beneficial. He states that the OE BMW plugs are probably good for 100,000 miles assuming no other problems such as oil leaking down into the plug recess from a leaky valve cover gasket. So, to be safe he recommends checking the plug recesses for oil at 60,000 and because you are already in there, changing the plugs at that time. So, if you or X5SilverBeast feel that changing the plugs 3+ times more often than BMW recommends and twice as much as Mike Miller suggests, then by all means do so, but don't do so under the guise of precentative maintenance. Just go ahead and say you are obsessed with tinkering on your cars and do it for fun and enjoyment. Changing OE spark plugs every 30,000 miles and OE oil and filters every 5,000 (in normal operating conditions) is like replacing all the light bulbs in your house BEFORE they burn out. Do you guys change the air in your tires every 6 months as well?

I know they are, that's why I'm leaning towards the Zionsville route.

The M53 engine is used in SOO many cars that I'm not surprised it's statistically the highest failure prone engine, but that's partly due to the sheer volume of those engines out there in vs V8's. The I6's run hot as well, I already know that...but at least they've got more space around them in the engine bay to breathe.

Pricing between the I6 and V8's is negligable as most assume the bigger engine is going to mean the bigger price tag, but I still think the I6's are more reliable than the V8's. I've always said the engines in these cars are good, it's just everything bolted to them.

I remember getting into an arguement with X5Meister about my recommendation to replace the entire cooling system after he tried to patronize me about the whole idea. He said that he wasn't going to listen to my advice based on me being a small time shadetree mechanic, so when I showed him the article that Mike and another BMW magazine writer had written, he suddenly disappeared from the thread. I agree that it's not always needed to go overboard, but if it makes you feel better, than so be it. I don't replace 3x over just for the sake of doing it, but 50k and 100k intervals while taking a weekend to do the work is worth the potential loss of headache for me. Changing bulbs and air, those are just bad analogies as none of those will leave you on the side of the road and only cost pennies to repair.

This is just another opinion of mine, but extended service intervals just leaves longer time periods for things to go wrong as well. For example, when some poeple do their own oil changes, they do it right there in their driveways and the most they see is parts of the engine and rarely do any kind of inspections. 99% of the time you take it to a shop, they inspect the whole undercarraige and tell the owner of potential problems instead of them possibly snowballing into larger issues, as I said before. Myself for example, I never would have noticed that the CV joint boot had failed had I not seen the grease all over the wheel and gone unnoticed for upwards of 15k. For those who never even open their own hood and just drive till something breaks next, more proactive maintenance could have prevented that. I've had to make the call to the customer stating everything wrong with their car cause of some funny sound, then I get the #$@*# when I tell them what it's going to cost to fix it. Had they paid attention to issues earlier...CEL, noises, etc it could have been far less. Either way, I'm sort of getting off topic here.

I'm not trying to argue with you, so to each their own. I just know that I'm not going to wait until things break if I know it's a known issue and can do something about it first.

[FSETH]

I agree with you that replacing the entire cooling system is probably a good way to go as it sure does seem replacing one part causes another to fail right after. Myself though, I would probably wait for the first part to go, then replace the whole system. Not just do it based on a mileage recommendation. The system in my e36 was overhauled, but that was at over 200,000 miles. I would have wasted a ton of money if I just decided to do it at 100,000 intervals regardless of failure.

At the end of the day you can replace all of these typical items and still end up stranded on the side of the road. Might as well go ahead and change your brake calipers, ignition coils, ecu, shock mounts, wheel bearings, etc. Where does it end? It is a machine and regardless of how hard core you are with regards to maintenance, something is going to break.

I view changing plugs two or three times as often as recommended as changing light bulbs before they burn out because both are a waste of money. My plugs have been in for 120,000 miles and the car runs as smooth as can be with plenty of power. Unless there is another underlying issue such as oil leaking into the plug holes, leaving your plugs in for the full 100,000 mile interval is not going to leave you stranded on the side of the road. I haven't heard of anyone who was left stranded because they followed the manufacturers recommendation for spark plug intervals.

[m5james]

I know what you mean, that's why I specifically said known issues. I'm not going to replace bearings just to replace bearings, but overheating and it's associated culprits being the valley pan, radiator neck, expansion tank, etc are so common that those are the items I chose to change on a mileage interval vs just waiting until they pop since 80-100k seems to be about the average for these items based on experience and/or reading.

You've brought up changing the spark plugs about 2-3x now. I'm not talking about spark plugs being prematurely replaced as I only do them every 100k if stock parts and 50k if non-BMW purchased. You say it's still got plenty of power, but ask an E39 M5 owner or just spend some time on the boards with the guys who replaced their MAF's on a regular mileage interval. I promise you that you'll find threads stating how they never realized how down on power their car was because, just like spark plugs, they're a resistance type wear item, so their performance disintegrates over time. My point is that I'm more on the cooling system and just about any other fluids in the car since those seem to be the most neglected items, which inturn lowly degrade other items. People don't flush their coolant enough, they get clogged radiators, heater control valves seize, etc. I worked at a shop who did quick and dirty brake jobs, aka no flushing of the fluid. They could have taken another 10 minutes, maybe made another $40, making the car and driver better off for it.

[X5SilverBeast]

I said it in one of my posts and I'll say it again. It is owner preference in the intervals to change items. By all means don't go by what I've said or do what I do.

Fseth you are correct, I do love to tinker with my rides or any ride for that matter. I change my plugs every 20-30k and oil every 5K due to the fact, my wife and I drive our vehicles hard. We live in north texas and summers are 100+. We do mix driving of highway and city with a lot of stop and go. There has been a ton of construction going on here over the past few years, which had created a lot of dirt and dust in the air. Our cars breath that shit in. This is one of the reasons why I do change things like this often. Air filters, fuel filters are the same. To me, IMO, it keeps the engine cleaner. To be quite honest, I can care less who mike miller is and what he's recommended.(not trying to start a war with you) Also, I've never stated that changing my plugs every 20-30K was preventive maint. just stated that it keeps it cleaner.

I'm in no way saying that bmw intervals are wrong. I do this for piece of mind and the fact that I enjoy toying with the rides every now and then. The methods that I've used have never failed me. I've never had any of my rides keep me stranded.

[m5james]

BMW X5...avoiding arguements with their wives by keeping men in the garage since 2000

[X5SilverBeast]

Originally Posted by m5james

BMW X5...Keeping men in the garage and avoiding arguements with their wives since 2000

Amen to that.

I think I got very lucky. My wife is a car nut too. She's the one that wanted to get the 540 until I started taking over the car to make it faster. We've talked about doing an LS3 swap once the old m62 goes. She saw an X5 on one of her shows and fell in love with. Got the X this past march, now she wants exhaust to make it a bit louder. We both love cars and working on them. Years back, she blew me away when she changed the alternator on our old honda. We have an 81 silverado that will be getting redone from the ground up and now she's talking about getting an old 67-72 c10. The man up stairs has been watching out for me for years.

[m5james]

A shop local to me (now out of business) did LSx swaps into a handful of 3 series, anything from coupes to wagons. I considered the same thing when I had to replace the engine in my 7...the pushrod V8 is so much smaller its not even funny.

What engine is in your X? It seems 3.0's has the most issue with drone, the 4.4 being the ideal engine for exhaust mods. I did Magnaflow 14816's on the 7 and they sound awesome, but they're too long for use in the X. X-pipe or those a pair of those eBay $16 mufflers that E53X54.4 used seem to give good results.

[X5SilverBeast]

The X has the N62 4.4. I was worried about getting it because of the valvetronic. Not sure how good the N62 is compared to the m62. Hopefully she treats us as good as the 540 has. We are leaning towards B&B. The cost is high as hell but since I got the B&B on the 540 and love the sound I think it would be good for the X.

Yeah I've been doing a ton of reseach on the LS swap. For the price, I can squeeze a hell of a lot of HP with the LS motor over the m62. The power options on the LS supercede the options on the M62. BMW made freakin great motors, but an LS swap is way cheaper with more HP than tryin to rebuild the M62. There has been quite a few guys on bimmerforums that have done it and are fabricating swap kits. I contacted VAC motorsports a few months ago, got quoted $25k for a 600hp street motor. Can do an LS motor for half that. I don't know if I'm going to have the courage to do myself or have a performance shop to help out. Will wait for the m62 to quit before I really dig into the project

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by X5SilverBeast

I said it in one of my posts and I'll say it again. It is owner preference in the intervals to change items. By all means don't go by what I've said or do what I do.

Fseth you are correct, I do love to tinker with my rides or any ride for that matter. I change my plugs every 20-30k and oil every 5K due to the fact, my wife and I drive our vehicles hard. We live in north texas and summers are 100+. We do mix driving of highway and city with a lot of stop and go. There has been a ton of construction going on here over the past few years, which had created a lot of dirt and dust in the air. Our cars breath that shit in. This is one of the reasons why I do change things like this often. Air filters, fuel filters are the same. To me, IMO, it keeps the engine cleaner. To be quite honest, I can care less who mike miller is and what he's recommended.(not trying to start a war with you) Also, I've never stated that changing my plugs every 20-30K was preventive maint. just stated that it keeps it cleaner.

I'm in no way saying that bmw intervals are wrong. I do this for piece of mind and the fact that I enjoy toying with the rides every now and then. The methods that I've used have never failed me. I've never had any of my rides keep me stranded.

No problem. To each his own.

Among other things, Mike Miller is BMWCCA's lead technical editor. He has years and years of experience with BMW's and the old school maintenance schedule he provides to CCA members is a mix of what BMW used to recommend in the old days (before free maintenance) and what he feels is best based on his personal experience with BMW's. His recommendations are based on long term ownership of the car. I was using him as a reference because he is known to be more aggressive than BMW about maintenance intervals these days and you are doing plugs twice as often as even he recommends. No big deal though.