HELP!:engine went bad, Foreign Motors West are trying not to cover or help

[alpac]

Originally Posted by statdoc

Not if they are claiming it was driver error.

How could they prove it is the driver's fault? No, no I still does not make sense to me.

[Quicksilver]

I agree. But here's the cincher. Diaz said: "i then asked for a printout of the overrev codes, which he didnt have, and what BMW NA thought about this, and he didnt have any overrev printouts with him, or any further information, and he hadnt even contacted BMW NA." I hope someone else heard this person say that because if that is true then they essentially have no proof. But these is a lesson here. Witnesses are very important and so is documentation. If he said that then he would have had to put that in writting for me as part of the service record. If he does that then his behind is mine. I believe diaz should return to the person who made that statement and ask for a print out of the service record. Do not say why. Just say I need it for my records. Look the report over carefully because this is going to be the evidence you need.

[JohnD]

Diaz,

(this is a long post - skip to the end for the answer)

I has a similar problem with Foreign Motors West about 2 years ago. The hood on my 1999 328IS had started to rust, so I brought it in to have it repaired under. Before the repair could be authorized they said that BMWNA had to look at the car but they only come out once a month. After 4 months of being blown off (I think they were waiting for the warranty to expired) I finally demanded they have them look at it.

BMWNA said the rust was due to a prior accident and that it wouldn't be covered under warranty. Having purchased the car at FMW with only 8K miles and never having been in an accident, I felt FMW should have disclosed this as part of the purchase of a CPO vehicle. After going back and forth with Lance Mitchel and the BMWNA rep. I went to the FMW body shop in Ashland. They confirmed that the drivers fender had been painted, but it appeared to have been done by the factory prior to the original owner taking delivery.

He communicated this to Lance and the BMW rep. and they agreed to cover 1/2 the cost of repairs, stating that Titanium Silver was a hard color to match and they needed to repaint both fenders and the hood. Having done body work for a number of years, I knew this was the case. I explained that to Lance and he basically told me to take it or leave it.

Reluctantly I agreed, FMW body shop had the car for over a month - the 1st paint job had runs, the second was the wrong color and the third had tape marks. After 4 attempts they finally got it right.

I tried BMWNA customer service, the service advisor for FMW (Lance Mitchell) and several BMW magazines, which were too afraid to print my story for fear of losing business from the deals - hey Roundel you suck!!

I ended up getting FMW to cover the full cost after writing the owner and explaining nicely that he can screw me now but in he long run my family which owns 7 BMW's would have the last laugh.

Hope this helps

[JohnD]

Oh and if that doesn't work - have a custom license plate made "FMW-SUX" and part the car in the Dunkin Donuts next door - they will respond

[footsurg]

[QUOTE=superH]Sounds to me like something fishy is up.

For one, I'm almost positive these cars have rev limiters to prevent over-revving (do you have a manual transmission?).

Also, how can they at first claim that it's bent valves, and then say the entire motor needs replacing. If the valves are bent, then the valves need replacing; if they "kissed" the pistons (doubtful), then possibly the pistons and valves will need replacing though that I don't think that's likely.

I have a hard time believing you were able to over-revved the motor. This problem should be completely covered by BMW under their factory warranty and I would expect to be driving a rental on their dime right now.

FWIW, I would have taken the car to a true BMW dealership first for a problem as serious as this.



The motor does have a rev limiter for sure. There is no way that the valves could have "kissed" the pistons unless the timing chain failed or slipped (a highly unlikely event). Furthermore the only event that could have actually bent the valves is contact with the pistons. Unless you completely lost timing this simply did not happen. Even with the overrev codes that still does not prove that your driving style harmed the motor. Any manual shifted engine is going to hit red line and a little over quite a lot. The engine is made to handle that.

Porsche is a good example of how a car company deals with overrev issues.
Porsche routinely checks cars with catastrophic engine failure for overrevs. Its not unusual to see 1000+ overrev events on an average Porsche when you check it. Mine had 1200 on the last check. Porsche still provides new motors for a lot of cars even with a lot of overrevs on the clock. You know why? Because the car is made to be driven in a spirited manner and they know it and they can't prove thats what caused the failure.

I would first contact BMW NA and settle this thing in a civil matter without a lot of emotion or anger. If that fails, then I would for sure seek council and or try to generate a little negative publicity. I think these dealers are trying to give you the run around. BMW NA likely knows nothing of this. Let them know at once. I am sure they will strive to find a solution that pleases everyone.

GL

Mark

[hayaku]

what the service advisor is claiming is that diaz performed a mechanical over-rev, aka the dreaded money shift.

remember that its all connected. the wheels to the differentials to the tranny to the engine. if one spins they all spin (unless in neutral/out of gear). so for every given gear, there is a mph range that the engine can be in (your rpm range). if you are in a high speed for 3rd/4th gear and you drop down to 2nd gear, your engine will need to spin faster then the available 7000 rpm limit to keep up with the wheels. that is the wheels are forcing the motor to over rev. since the cam shafts are only designed to spin at a max of 7000 rpm, anything over will cause it to bend the valves and cause other head damage.

diaz should NOT have downshifted, but rather have put both feet in (clutch and and brakes) as hard as he can.

engine braking is ALWAYS the wrong answer for quickly stopping a vehicle. the brakes do a much better job at that.

I do not know if the stuck accelerator claim will work since the over-rev was caused by diaz and he did not do the proper actions by putting both feet in.

sorry diaz, this is not what you wanted to hear or read but there is driver error involved. i don't know if that will be covered by the stuck accelerator issue...

[X5Ghost]

Wow ..I'm really pissed right now about BMW dealers. Is this Foreign Auto West a BMW dealer? I almost feel like going back to this idiot and

[vinuneuro]

I agree with hayaku that downshifitng into 2nd would have mechanically forced the engine far above the redline. The fuel may have cut-off, but the vehicle speed forced the engine to over-rev. At really high engine speeds (way above redline), the valvesprings can't pull the valves back fast enough, so the piston ends up htting them and the result is usually bent exhaust valves. It was indeed driver error. Sorry.

I'd like to know why you need a whole engine. Just get a remanufactured cylinder head or a used one. The other option would be to take the vehicle to the mechanic of your choice and have him take off the cylinder head and get a machine shop to install new ones.

As long as any valves didn't drop into the cylinder (if they had, the engine would not run at all, so you're probably fine in that respect), you should be able to just swap cylinder heads. It shouldn't be too labor intensive for an experienced mechanic. Look here for another cylinder head, they are the world's largest seller of used bmw parts and sell quality stuff that's either been inspected or remanfactured, good prices too:

www.bmrparts.com

Good luck and let us know if we can help in any way.

[alpac]

Originally Posted by hayaku

what the service advisor is claiming is that diaz performed a mechanical over-rev, aka the dreaded money shift.

remember that its all connected. the wheels to the differentials to the tranny to the engine. if one spins they all spin (unless in neutral/out of gear). so for every given gear, there is a mph range that the engine can be in (your rpm range). if you are in a high speed for 3rd/4th gear and you drop down to 2nd gear, your engine will need to spin faster then the available 7000 rpm limit to keep up with the wheels. that is the wheels are forcing the motor to over rev. since the cam shafts are only designed to spin at a max of 7000 rpm, anything over will cause it to bend the valves and cause other head damage.

diaz should NOT have downshifted, but rather have put both feet in (clutch and and brakes) as hard as he can.

engine braking is ALWAYS the wrong answer for quickly stopping a vehicle. the brakes do a much better job at that.

I do not know if the stuck accelerator claim will work since the over-rev was caused by diaz and he did not do the proper actions by putting both feet in.

sorry diaz, this is not what you wanted to hear or read but there is driver error involved. i don't know if that will be covered by the stuck accelerator issue...

Hayaku, you are right and I am not arguing on the fact that Diaz would have better use his brakes rather than trying to down shift. However, the point here is that everything started with a defect of the car, accelerator pedal broken. Whatever happened after is the result of this initial problem.

[hayaku]

i don't know if that argument will pass with the dealer since they have to explain why the head must be replaced...