Would YOU trade your 10 year old european car for a brand new 2011 $15,000 domestic

[heizervr6]

No chance in hell. Some great arguments on here for keeping an older BMW over something newer in another brand. I've spent my whole life driving older German cars because I'd rather have that than something soulless and lacking character, nevermind performance and handling. Yes, they may cost more to repair and/or be out of warranty but hey, if you want to play, you gotta pay. Besides the way BMW's are engineered is unlike any other vehicle that I've worked on, they truly are the easiest cars to repair.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by PropellerHead

They may be a reasonable alternative until the unthinkable happens. Would you put your child behind the wheel of a Honda Fit or one of these?

Yes, and I have done so.

We put our eldest daughter in a Toyota Echo Hatchback, now called a Yaris. Youngest in a Civic. We focused on driver training with both of them, something that gets missed by many new drivers. That meant manual transmissions, car control, driving on snow and ice, skid control. Yaris is gone, replaced by a new Focus.

Also, both girls drove on four of the best winter tires I could get (Blizzaks, and Michelin Ice) in the sizes they needed. So many parents let their children drive around on all season tires.

The eldest went to skid school as part of her new job. They used Focus sedans for the course, same as her new car (except they used automatics, because so many people these days don't know how to drive a standard transmission).

Since you are showing pictures from the IIHS, you should look at their web site. The Civic, and Focus, are top safety picks. So is the Fiesta, for that matter. As was the Fit, a few years ago. The Echo wasn't, but it had reasonable crash test results at the time. It wasn't sold in the US, so the IIHS didn't rate it. Our sixteen year old asked at the time if she could have my Z4, instead of a used Civic. Do you think that would have been safer, giving a new driver a Z4 3.0si with sports package? No way, IMO.

I know my 2003 X5 had good crash test results when it was built, but that was eight years ago.

Carrying extra weight around doesn't make one safer. It just makes it more likely that the vehicle or pedestrian you hit will suffer more damage. And a more powerful and heavier car has two strikes against it for a new driver, IMO.

[Naz24]

JCL you make a good point. The "tin cans" are still top safety picks.

My parents allowed me to get an X5 because:

1. I paid the difference between what they were willing to spend, and what i wanted
2. Going to school in upstate NY really isnt good without AWD. Honestly, I have seen those ford focuses, etc get really stuck--EVEN WITH studded snow tires. I have not gotten in trouble up here with X-Drive and my pirelli snows
3. I do think no matter what, The X5 is still safer than the focus and fit, etc. Put them in an accident with a larger car such as a suburban, and compare the results with how the X5 would do..Size really does matter in this case

However, the X5 was NOT my first car, in fact it was my third, I started out with a '98 infiniti I30T, and then a 94 325i. The BMW had a manual tranny--really taught me how to drive well.

If i had the X5 as my first car, i think the 4.4i liter V8 would have been too much for me.. This was proven when i took my dads e39 M5 out for a ride at 17 yrs old, and got pulled over for doing 85 in a 45.. whoops (no ticket though )

[AzNMpower32]

It's very tempting. My X3 is thirsty around town, not very fast, parts are expensive, and lacks the creature comforts and conveniences of newer cars. To illustrate: the F25 xDrive20d has a 4 cylinder diesel that is better in every way than my old M54 6-cylinder 2,5 litre.

But every time I head into the mountains, it's hard to see giving it up. Yes, gradients make it painfully obvious that 184hp doesn't cut it (I'm often extracting every last rpm) but it is so stable, secure, and enjoyable on rural roads and switchbacks. When weather turns foul, the good tires plus typical BMW stability "feel" have me plowing on with confidence. The Bi-xenon headlamps, hard-working GM transmission, and frankly amazing suspension are also plus points. Plus, it fits a mountain bike (barely) and all the kit for a weekend trip.

The small mods I've made also make it hard to give up. European-coded headlights, rear foglights, the aspheric outside mirror, a recently new Business Radio that reads mp3s, upgraded speakers, and snazzy interior design are just some of the things I'd lose if I had to give my X3 up.

So it looks like the X3 is here to stay for at least another year. I've worn out my snow tires and my parents don't have the budget for another set, so I may have to take other cars to the slopes this winter.

I will say this: I'm tempted to get a small pickup. If VW sold their Amarok in the US, I would probably buy one. VW engineering plus just 7,7 l/100km combined (30 US mpg) fuel consumption figures work well for me.

[Denis0331]

I drove alot of different cars BMW, infinity, VW, Nissan, Chevy, Dodge, Mazda, Toyota.The only car i would ever buy used is BMW i take a pride in Driving a beautiful European car and therefor do preventive maintenance on it, clean my interior and wax it every other week. the car looks like its a brand new even with two kids trashing interior with snacks and spilled juice or milk or walking on leather with their filthy little shoes. For the sake of argument send some pics of exterior and interior of your domestic 100,000 mile car and whoever feels like showing off their European car may do so but must also have 100,000+ miles on it.

[PropellerHead]

Originally Posted by JCL

Since you are showing pictures from the IIHS, you should look at their web site.

Actually, I took that picture from our 2002 delivery of our E46. The tested X5 was a feature in the Zentrum.

But I did take a look at the site. I always enjoy looking at those crash results and seeing how the X5 faired so well. So did the E46, in fact. Except for being all 'G's' in the tested areas, the text of the E46 read very much like the Yaris. The E46 can be found for less than $10K. It seems like a very good bargain for safety and performance mix.

But to compare the Yaris and the X5, it is nice to see such strides in recent years out of the little car makers. Of course, it did not do quite as well as either ten year old BMW, and you want to make sure you get one with side airbags, or you're in a death trap on a side impact- rated 'Poor.'

The civic did well in the offset crash, but looking at the ratings of a Civic and those pictures from the side impact crash results is scary. Even the E46's side impact ratings were not as good as the X5's- which were all green or 'Good.'

I think you've offered excellent advice to parents- The key is driver control and training. My dad started me early with Skip Barber with our Euro Delivery 633Csi and 635Csi. From there, it was all about finding an event to run my '75 2002 around a track. I've had that slow little thing for almost 25 years and haven't needed to test the safety. Bet it would be scary!

[bigwave2255]

when your talking about "domestic" cars are you talking about chev, ford, dodge

or japanese designed cars built in US factories???

because in Australia your typical toyota, honda mazda are extremely well built robust cars that will give many years of trouble free motoring.

however we also have the dubious privilege of having available cars like the dodge neon and caliber, now those ARE pieces of shit, who designed and built that trash.

so if im trading my 10 year old europesan car on a new dodge caliber i would say i,m an idiot.

but if it were for a new japanese built mazda 6, now there is a great looking great handling well built quality car.

but again we import these cars from japan. and i dont know what quality they represent when buitl in the USA

[Meiac09]

No. Simple.

I sober drove in a Ford Escape in Charleston once and that was more than enough to justify anything. The sad part, is that I consider an escape to be one of the better cars out there.

I get so much more out of my 6 year old 325, and even the 15 year old one I learned to drive on than I ever could an econobox toaster.

[Naz24]

Originally Posted by Meiac09

No. Simple.

I sober drove in a Ford Escape in Charleston once and that was more than enough to justify anything. The sad part, is that I consider an escape to be one of the better cars out there.

I get so much more out of my 6 year old 325, and even the 15 year old one I learned to drive on than I ever could an econobox toaster.

Funny you say that. My best friend just got a brand new escape. He really is a driver.... He is so jealous of my 7.5 year old 100k mile X5.. And would trade in a heart beat

[1stE53]

I wouldn't trade. The safety of for one. My wife and two children use the X 90+% of the time. The smaller cars may pass crash tests because of the cabin structure is rigid, but with the larger and heavier vehicle, more of the impact is dispersed thoughout the vehicle and not the passenger. ie. the crash test done between an old 90s S class Merc and the new Smart Car. The passenger cell was not crushed after the impact but the people would have surelly died due to the force of the impact transfered to their bodies.
These vehicles age so much better than do a "normal" car. A well kept German (even some Japanese) car will look better and more modern than many/most standard cars after just two years. Germans also keep the same basic body for about 7 or 8 years, so my first run 2003 E class looks almost identical to 2006 and very close to the 2009. When parked next to the new 2011 black cars, mine has more lustre and gloss than those do. I still get asked if it is new. I'm getting close to that look with the X, lots of work and upkeep though. The quality of interior in both my 2003 models are far far far superior to that af any sub $20K NEW car out there. Ride comfort, well, that goes without saying.

Someone mentioned they didn't think the X handles well!! I corner faster with that than I do with the E class and the E class will out corner my company cars (2006 Malibu, 2010 Impala, and 2010 Buick Lacross) by at least 15 mph on a loop coming on or getting off the interstate.