Royal Purple is now API SN Licensed Motor Oil...

[sasquatch]

Motul is a European brand oil. Very good oil. Used there stuff in my cars and motorcycles. It can usually be found at euro-type shops and retailers. Your local auto parts store like Autozone does not carry it.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by SLK_X5

Oil Filters were not manufactured by them since they did not meet the API SM or better requirements on their motor oils as required by BMW. But since they recently have exceeded the specs with API SN, I think that they have something in the works soon to be released so we just have to wait (I was also looking for one). I will ask Chris and see what he says.

j

They seem pretty expensive for a rebranded oil filter painted purple. Royal Purple don't make their own oil filters. Same manufacturer as some AC Delco filters, apparently. Info on BITOG.

What I don't understand is that if one is going to specifically use a warranty-approved oil such as was recently released by Royal Purple, why use a non-warranty approved filter?

[SLK_X5]

Just Received A Response From Chris Over at Royal Purple Regarding our filters:

Hi SLK_X5,

This comes up almost every time we meet about the filter line. Unfortunately, we have not yet determined to start producing cartridge filters, but fortunately we have expanded the filter line every year (3 total on the market) and likely will continue to do so.

Regards,

Chris

[SLK_X5]

Originally Posted by JCL

j

They seem pretty expensive for a rebranded oil filter painted purple. Royal Purple don't make their own oil filters. Same manufacturer as some AC Delco filters, apparently. Info on BITOG.

What I don't understand is that if one is going to specifically use a warranty-approved oil such as was recently released by Royal Purple, why use a non-warranty approved filter?

I have to agree with you regarding the costs, but I was told that their membranes are made of better quality with finer micron filtration as shown here: Royal Purple State-of-the-art Oil Filter Also not too sure who actually manufactures their oil filters either. I'll check out BITOG to get his take on it.

Update: They make the filters themselves, there is a video on the link I posted that shows the manufacturing process and location being their own in Illinois.

Do you think that BMW would actually go that far as to give us a problem for using a better quality oil filter? Honestly, it would be a stretch if they actually checked the filter canister for compliance. I would only use them if I saw that they exceeded BMWs OEM filter tolerances, there is no need if they are just going to be the same.

[JCL]

On BITOG they are claimed to be made by Champion Labs, who make filters for a lot of different companies. Some of those companies are AC, STP, Car&Driver, Deutsch, Champ, Bosch, Lubrifiner, Mopar, Kleener, TRD, VW, and Mobil. Champion list Royal Purple as one of the brands they make. And they have a factory in Albion, Illinois. So it looks like that paid advertisement was actually filmed at a Champion factory.

This is all moot, as you can't use a Royal Purple filter anyway, since they don't make cartridge filters like BMW uses.

Royal Purple claim their membranes are better, but why would you believe that? Isn't that what most advertising says? They aren't comparing their filter to BMW, they are comparing it to some unknown other filter. And if it filters more, it will generally plug up faster. On a spin-on filter, what happens then is the bypass valve opens, and the filter stops filtering, as all the oil bypasses it. Specs should include filtering performance, and capacity, and be a result of tests run to SAE standards.

BMW doesn't publish any specs for their filters, so any aftermarket filter is of an unknown quality compared to OE BMW. Even filters made by BMW suppliers (Mahle, Mann) can have different filter media and quality in the same size filter compared to an OE BMW filter.

This isn't to say that all of these aftermarket filters are bad, some may be just fine. Some may be better than OE. And since these models are out of warranty, owners can buy whatever they like without fear of BMW pointing to a filter as a cause of engine failure. I just think it is interesting that Royal Purple can come out with purple oil filters at a premium price, made by a third party who makes a wide range of filters, and people line up to buy them. Shows the power of marketing.

[SLK_X5]

Originally Posted by JCL

On BITOG they are claimed to be made by Champion Labs, who make filters for a lot of different companies. Some of those companies are AC, STP, Car&Driver, Deutsch, Champ, Bosch, Lubrifiner, Mopar, Kleener, TRD, VW, and Mobil. Champion list Royal Purple as one of the brands they make. And they have a factory in Albion, Illinois. So it looks like that paid advertisement was actually filmed at a Champion factory.

This is all moot, as you can't use a Royal Purple filter anyway, since they don't make cartridge filters like BMW uses.

Royal Purple claim their membranes are better, but why would you believe that? Isn't that what most advertising says? They aren't comparing their filter to BMW, they are comparing it to some unknown other filter. And if it filters more, it will generally plug up faster. On a spin-on filter, what happens then is the bypass valve opens, and the filter stops filtering, as all the oil bypasses it. Specs should include filtering performance, and capacity, and be a result of tests run to SAE standards.

BMW doesn't publish any specs for their filters, so any aftermarket filter is of an unknown quality compared to OE BMW. Even filters made by BMW suppliers (Mahle, Mann) can have different filter media and quality in the same size filter compared to an OE BMW filter.

This isn't to say that all of these aftermarket filters are bad, some may be just fine. Some may be better than OE. And since these models are out of warranty, owners can buy whatever they like without fear of BMW pointing to a filter as a cause of engine failure. I just think it is interesting that Royal Purple can come out with purple oil filters at a premium price, made by a third party who makes a wide range of filters, and people line up to buy them. Shows the power of marketing.

I Have to agree with you there, after careful inspection you are right. It's a third party facility that belongs to Champion Labs; Clever marketing ploy. The one thing that I give credit to Royal Purple for is actually providing actual test results on their products to show its ability. So I don't doubt that if they do enter this market that they will have some test devised to show benchmarks. If not OE is the way to go I would never trust any company that does not provide facts to back their claims. Plus, I think that as in all third party manufacturers the product still was designed by Royal Purple's Engineers to some specific tolerances that they established. Champion Labs looks like a Mass Manufacturing facility with possible design facilities too.

Champion Labs does manufacture Bosch Oil Filters which could be correlated to our BMW OE filters. So If Bosch uses them I guess they have some level of trust in their products.

But Again, Time will tell so I guess we should wait and see.

[Paulk1]

Does RP have something approved for diesel engines?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by SLK_X5

I Have to agree with you there, after careful inspection you are right. It's a third party facility that belongs to Champion Labs; Clever marketing ploy. The one thing that I give credit to Royal Purple for is actually providing actual test results on their products to show its ability. So I don't doubt that if they do enter this market that they will have some test devised to show benchmarks. If not OE is the way to go I would never trust any company that does not provide facts to back their claims. Plus, I think that as in all third party manufacturers the product still was designed by Royal Purple's Engineers to some specific tolerances that they established. Champion Labs looks like a Mass Manufacturing facility with possible design facilities too.

Champion Labs does manufacture Bosch Oil Filters which could be correlated to our BMW OE filters. So If Bosch uses them I guess they have some level of trust in their products.

I don't think it is a clever marketing ploy, I think it is misleading marketing.

I peprsonally disagree on giving them credit for advertising the filtering specs. I actually go so far as to discredit them for publishing misleading and incomplete filtering specs. I am far less likely to purchase a Royal Purple oil filter, just as a result of their marketing.

Filtering performance should be measured according to SAE806 (single pass), SAE1858 (multipass) or ISO4548-12. The test results should show that they were run by an independent lab according to one of those standards (the more current the standard the better). Even then, the test standards are not prescriptive, as there are many things left to the tester's discretion (like flow rates), which is why an independent tester is better. But those standards are at least a start in having a meaningful result that can be compared. For realistic comparative data, an independent tester would test many filters, on the same test bench, using the same flows and dirt particles.

Filtering performance is usually measured these days for a number of micron ratings, not one. Engine wear will happen with particles from 2 microns up, with a focus on particles from 5 to 20 or 25 microns. Measuring filtering efficiency at one rating (25 microns) as Champion/Royal Purple did is misleading. Even worse is if they have results for all micron ratings, but just cherry-picked one good figure. That could be done by varying the filtering flow rate, for example. They might not have done that, but they have certainly left themselves open to suspicion by the nature of their claim.

We should care about the filtering efficiency at multiple points, ie 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 microns, as well as the filter capacity, since it is no good filtering well if the filter gets plugged up, and goes into bypass mode too soon in its life, thus providing no filtering at all.

So when I see a vendor advertise a very high efficiency filter rating, at a single micron rating (and not a very relevant one, either), with no capacity figures or test stanards noted, I put them in the "snake oil" category. That might not be totally fair, but if they want to publish such misleading and incomplete information, in an attempt to sway people who don't know the fuller story, then I don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

I would not give Royal Purple credit for the engineering on this filter. Champion Labs does the engineering. Royal Purple specifed the colour.

The fact that Bosch buys some Champion Filters is not an endorsement. We don't know which filters Bosch buy. Perhaps they aren't even oil filters. The fact that Bosch is German doesn't matter, and does not create a correlation relating to quality or applicability. Bosch makes some pretty good wiper blades, but I wouldn't use one to filter my oil.

/rant. Royal Purple filters may be just fine, albeit expensive. I don't particularly dislike Royal Purple. I just don't like hype, which is mostly what I see on their website.

[SLK_X5]

Originally Posted by Paulk1

Does RP have something approved for diesel engines?

Hey Paulk1, I am not too sure, your best bet would be to call the dealership and find out what they use on diesel engines. But as it looks you are still under warranty so in my opinion I would just let them change it.

If it is the same then you can use the same oil, but if it's different send them over an email. They are usually very good with getting back to you.