Torque Converter Fault

[taosx5]

Hey anybody ever had this fault code P0741? I have an 03 4.6is with about 74K miles. It is the torque converter, (specifically says clutch soenoid circuit performance or stuck off) This trouble code keeps coming up. I have been talking with some experienced people (on this forum)about this but wondering if anyone in the forums have had the same issue. I am not experiencing any noises or other symptoms, just the service engine light comes on occaisonally. I spoke with a local BMW service advisor, he said replacement of the TC is about $3K with parts and labor. He suggested changing tranny fluid and filter and then see if the trouble codes stop. I am not sure what course I should take. My 4.6 has Dinan Stage II perfomance chip, Dinan CAI, and MAF Just wondering if anyone on the forums have had similar experience with this. Thanks in advance.

[taosx5]

Bumpig my own thread here hoping someone might have had some experience with this same issue. Anyone????

Originally Posted by taosx5

Hey anybody ever had this fault code P0741? I have an 03 4.6is with about 74K miles. It is the torque converter, (specifically says clutch soenoid circuit performance or stuck off) This trouble code keeps coming up. I have been talking with some experienced people (on this forum)about this but wondering if anyone in the forums have had the same issue. I am not experiencing any noises or other symptoms, just the service engine light comes on occaisonally. I spoke with a local BMW service advisor, he said replacement of the TC is about $3K with parts and labor. He suggested changing tranny fluid and filter and then see if the trouble codes stop. I am not sure what course I should take. My 4.6 has Dinan Stage II perfomance chip, Dinan CAI, and MAF Just wondering if anyone on the forums have had similar experience with this. Thanks in advance.

[chilliwilli]

The TC warning is the first symptom...if left undiagnosed, next will be a metal on metal grinding sound. This will definitely have a negative impact on your trany if not replaced or addressed.

I experienced this with two different 4.6iS' at around similar mileage. The TC failure is a common issue on the 4.6iS. I went with a new OEM TC instead of having it rebuilt.

[taosx5]

Originally Posted by chilliwilli

The TC warning is the first symptom...if left undiagnosed, next will be a metal on metal grinding sound. This will definitely have a negative impact on your trany if not replaced or addressed.

I experienced this with two different 4.6iS' at around similar mileage. The TC failure is a common issue on the 4.6iS. I went with a new OEM TC instead of having it rebuilt.

Thanks Chili, did you experience any symptoms when either of your 4.6's were displaying the TC fault? Was there any shifting issues, unusual noises, etc. I am not experiencing any thing unusual. The BMW service advisor reccomended the fluid change first. I am just curious if that might be the first thing to try. Ideas???

[Hit Redline]

I had torque converter slip fault in my 4.6 as well, but tranny noise started first then engine light went off. Around the same mileage as you and chilliwilli. I ended up with a rebuild.

I guess you could try a tranny flush, but it is not like changing your oil. Without removing the TC it will still have old fluid in it. You can search for tranny fluid changes and you will get a better understanding why this is and how to best flush.

You may also have them drain some fluid and inspect for metal shavings. If metal is there then the damage is done and the fluid change won't help.

GL

[chilliwilli]

Originally Posted by taosx5

Thanks Chili, did you experience any symptoms when either of your 4.6's were displaying the TC fault? Was there any shifting issues, unusual noises, etc. I am not experiencing any thing unusual. The BMW service advisor reccomended the fluid change first. I am just curious if that might be the first thing to try. Ideas???

With my previous X5, it began with the rough downshifts...some time after the fault code, i began hearing a grinding/whine sound (similar to supercharger). Driveability-wise, it was a bit sluggish. I wasn't prompt in addressing the issue and soon discovered that metal particles from the TC made it's way into trany. By this time, i was advised to overhaul the TC and trany. Had i addressed the issue at first symptom, only the TC would would've required repair.

With my current X5...i became much more observant and address issues immediately or preventatively. As soon i discovered the fault code, i promptly addressed the issue, having the trany rebuilt by a tech and decided to purchase a new OEM TC.

I suggest you get a thorough diagnosis of both trany and TC.

[JCL]

It is always cheaper to fix things before failure. Right now you have a failing torque converter, but you don't yet have a failing transmission. If you keep driving it you have a chance of contaminating and thus taking out the transmission.

You can pay now, or you can pay later. Since the torque converter failure on a 4.6 is a known issue, it shouldn't be hard to decide to fix it.

I think it would be a waste of time changing the fluid, since you don't likely have a fluid problem. Even if you change it, you are likely to require a torque converter soon after.

[Nik]

Originally Posted by chilliwilli

The TC warning is the first symptom...if left undiagnosed, next will be a metal on metal grinding sound.

What kind of grinding sound? Could hearing those sounds from underneath when coming to full stop be the case?

[X5Sport]

Originally Posted by Nik

What kind of grinding sound? Could hearing those sounds from underneath when coming to full stop be the case?

In my case it was a metal to metal rattle when stationery - broken parts in the TC rattling about. Best described as the sound metal plates make when shaken in a tin. Noises emanated from just behind the engine in the bell housing (exactly where the TC is). Also apparent once the car was warmed up, but not initially apparent on a very cold morning (mine failed on 21/Dec/2009) when it was started to be put on the recovery wagon. It could not be driven up the ramp of the flatbed and had to be winched on.

Also very jerky gearshifts in 1st thru 3rd (4th to 6th were fine) and tended to lock in third when slowing down meaning very hard braking required to hold the car stopped at traffic lights etc. Diesels having so much torque low down meant it just wanted to take off from a halt!! Not fun on icy roads!! 'Sport' mode was non-functional - or at least was ignored by the control system as was 'Manual mode''.

BMW Garage reported the transmission oil as brown/black and smelling burnt (caused by multiple clutches failing due to lack of gearbox hydraulic control pressure).

[Nik]

Originally Posted by X5Sport

In my case it was a metal to metal rattle when stationery - broken parts in the TC rattling about. Best described as the sound metal plates make when shaken in a tin. Noises emanated from just behind the engine in the bell housing (exactly where the TC is). Also apparent once the car was warmed up, but not initially apparent on a very cold morning (mine failed on 21/Dec/2009) when it was started to be put on the recovery wagon. It could not be driven up the ramp of the flatbed and had to be winched on.

Also very jerky gearshifts in 1st thru 3rd (4th to 6th were fine) and tended to lock in third when slowing down meaning very hard braking required to hold the car stopped at traffic lights etc. Diesels having so much torque low down meant it just wanted to take off from a halt!! Not fun on icy roads!! 'Sport' mode was non-functional - or at least was ignored by the control system as was 'Manual mode''.

BMW Garage reported the transmission oil as brown/black and smelling burnt (caused by multiple clutches failing due to lack of gearbox hydraulic control pressure).

I see, thanks. I Just had my Tranny rebuilt, now on cold starts in the morning it seems that it can't read P. I have to put it to N, and then put it postion 1, 2. and then it shows P. I have some list to repair first, then I'll take it place I rebuild my tranny and show them TC as well. Thanks and sorry for late responses.