Prices

[Daka]

Well,
After my rant...I decided to try to figure out what my car is actually worth
Kbb seems to be the only place I can find...Trade in price ranges $16 K top to $14 low, and from what I see they seem to be about $20 K asking price locally
So what is an 06 3.0 Sport, Prem, rear shades, Sirius, Parking alarms (no nav)58,000 mile Black Saphire Oyster worth
It's un marked, no paint or body work ever
I am the second owner bought with CPO, just ended. Needs NOTHING.
What have you paid for a recent purchased 06 with low mileage?

[bcredliner]

Try New Cars, Used Cars, Car Reviews | Cars.com to see prices of similar vehicles in your area.

[Robert Platt Bell]

A nice '06 was on eBay the other day. My dream car - six cylinder, six-speed manual. Heated seats, no navigation, MANUAL air conditioning controls, and a trailer hitch (!!) no less. 118,000 miles.

Unsold at $11,900

The resale value on early X5's is in the low teens and even under ten grand. Some are selling for as little as $7500. Price depends on condition.

twenty grand sounds a little ambitious, even for a later model E53. But I would check edmunds.com, NADA guides, and KBB. Edmunds is the most pessimistic of the three.

Bear in mind that dealer retail is not a realistic price to expect for a private party sale.

Most cars depreciate by half every five years, even BMWs. When folks say BMWs have "low depreciation" they mean like 60% instead of 50%. They still depreciate, sadly.

All the more reason to just keep it and drive it.

That is my plan - drive the current car until it breaks and then try to find a 2006 model with low miles, and start over again.

Hmm.... sounds like your car!

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by Robert Platt Bell

.....and a trailer hitch (!!) no less.....

In the used car market tow vehicles WITHOUT the tow hitch are actually worth MORE provided the factory towing package did not include bigger brakes and/or better fluid cooling (diff, trans, engine). Seeing that the BMW E53 tow package includes no other vehicle mods the non-hitched Xs will have higher resale. Given the choice of 2 identical Xs with over 100k miles most will choose the non-hitched X and just install one if they are planning to tow.

[Robert Platt Bell]

That is of course a good point. If you are shopping for a car, you don't want one that has been raced or used for towing or other hard use.

This is why I shy away from "modded" cars, as usually they are owned by younger men who drive them hard.

The tow package is a plus for me, as I use my X5 to tow a trailer, and the availability of the aftermarket hitch is spotty. They are about $500 from the dealer, when you can find them. For several years, the Westfalia hitch was NLA from the dealer. I understand they are back in stock. It is not a cheap accessory to buy.

All that being said, the X5 makes a great tow vehicle, at least with the manual transmission and WITHOUT the air suspension. The huge brakes on this car are more than sufficient to stop a 3500 pound trailer WITHOUT trailer brakes (which I did for the first year I had it).

We've got 150,000 miles on it, and nothing major in the driveline has broken. Still on the original clutch, and the last set of brake PADS lasted 63,000 miles. I try to anticipate my stops, and lot of that driving is on the highway. So even towing a heavier trailer, for about three months of every year, really hasn't stressed my X5 all that much.

Like I said, it makes a good tow vehicle, which really surprised me when I first got it.

On most cars, the "towing package" consists of a larger or axillary transmission cooler (for automatic transmission models), a higher rear end ratio, heavy duty cooling, heavy duty batter, and of course, the hitch and pre-wiring for a brake controller.

There is really no "towing package" for the X5, just an aftermarket hitch kit.

And as for brakes, I am not aware of any serial production vehicle in recent years that offers "bigger brakes" on a tow package.

And as for the mere presence of a trailer hitch affecting value, I have to disagree somewhat there. A lot of people put a hitch on a car and tow small boats and Jet Skis or a small utility trailer. These are used infrequently and weigh very little (1000-2000 lbs). There is little additional wear caused by occasionally towing small trailers.

And of course, the whole POINT of a "Sports Activity Vehicle" is its utility, which the trailer hitch allows. Right? I mean, it is kind of pointless to own one of these busses just to drive to work, IMHO.




Isn't this the whole point of a utility vehicle? Utility?

[Whitecat]

Paid my 2006 4.4i 20k last year with 70k miles with full fledge options (no hitch) i've installed the hitch after.....again the price comparaison should be aligned with your country ...mine same car in the US i would have paid 10 to 20% less... my X came from Arizona but was sold to me here in Canada...the good side is 6 years in Arizona with no rough winter kept the car immaculate

[Robert Platt Bell]

Originally Posted by Whitecat

Paid my 2006 4.4i 20k last year with 70k miles with full fledge options (no hitch) i've installed the hitch after.....again the price comparaison should be aligned with your country ...mine same car in the US i would have paid 10 to 20% less... my X came from Arizona but was sold to me here in Canada...the good side is 6 years in Arizona with no rough winter kept the car immaculate

Was that a dealer retail price, or a private party sale? There is a spread of about 20-30% if not more, between the two.

A lot of folks simply don't "get" this, and it always irks me when someone lists their car for "below book value" and the price is $100 less than KBB Dealer retail. Not a real bargain, and sort of deceptive, too. I think such folks believe they are being clever.

When selling a car, it is not realistic to expect to get dealer retail. Dealers have salesmen and financing and other things that allow them to charge more than the average curbstoner could do.

Cars depreciate by about 50% every five years. It is a pretty good rule of thumb. BMWs a little less so, but not really a lot less so. So if a 2001 is trading at $10K, then a 2006 might be fetching $20K on a good day.

KBB is showing, for a low mileage, excellent condition 2006, loaded about 20 grand in "excellent" condition.

• Excellent
  $20,250
• Very Good
  $19,750
• Good
  $19,300
• Fair
  $17,800

That's KBB. I think they tend to be a little ambitious with pricing (dealers love to use KBB, as it provides higher prices). NADAguides is a little lower, and the dealer is likely to use that when evaluating a trade-in.

Edmunds is the most pessimistic, but I think a valuable tool, as it takes into account condition, mileage, color, zip code, etc.

Here is the Edmunds evaluation. I had to guess on options and color, etc.:

Customized True Market Value® Prices


Trade-In Private Party Dealer Retail
National Base Price $12,214 $13,693 $15,360
Optional Equipment $2,275 $2,599 $3,290
Power Glass Sunroof $138 $158 $200
Heated Steering Wheel $29 $33 $42
Remote Sunroof Operation $17 $20 $25
Heated Passenger Seat $24 $28 $35
Front Sport Seats $277 $316 $400
Privacy Glass $41 $47 $59
Heated Driver's Seat $24 $28 $35
Subwoofer $233 $267 $338
Driver Adjustable Suspension $97 $111 $141
Headlight Cleaners $61 $69 $88
Reclining Rear Seat $61 $70 $89
Power Glass Rear Sunroof $138 $158 $200
Manual Side Sunshade $37 $42 $53
AM/FM/Cassette/CD Audio System $49 $56 $71
Wood Shift Knob Trim $0 $0 $0
16-Way Power Front Passenger Seat $117 $133 $169
Wood Door Trim $0 $0 $0
Wood Center Console Trim $0 $0 $0
16-Way Power Driver's Seat $117 $133 $169
19 Inch Alloy Wheels $185 $211 $267
Bluetooth $79 $90 $114
Satellite Communications $18 $20 $26
Rear Heated Seats $68 $78 $98
Front and Rear Side Airbags $75 $86 $108
Navigation System $301 $344 $435
Auto-Dim Rear View Mirror $23 $26 $33
Auto-Dim Exterior Mirror(s) $29 $33 $42
Rear Ski Bag $37 $42 $53
Color Adjustment - Silver $64 $72 $81
Regional Adjustment - for Zip Code 32210 $26 $30 $33
Mileage Adjustment - 70,000 miles $834 $834 $834
Condition Adjustment - Outstanding $1,127 $1,206 $1,384

Total $16,540 $18,434 $20,982

What is really interesting is how little mileage adds to the equation - far less than overall condition. Of course "condition" is subjective. And even then, condition really doesn't affect the price by more than 10%, at least according to Edmunds.

And of course, pricing on a car is totally subjective anyway. If a car has a certain combination of options and is a "must have" for someone, they will gladly pay over market value for it.

I paid $25,000 for my 2001, about eight years ago. It had 48,900 miles on it and three days left on the warranty. We've driven it, hard, over 100,000 miles, including a trip to Labrador (not a smart idea, parts availability in the maritimes for BMWs is sketchy, as I found out). Probably half that mileage was towing a trailer.

And other than going to the dealer for a cruise control switch on the last day of warranty, it has not seen a dealership, or indeed any other mechanic than myself, in that time.

And really, nothing major has ever broken on it. Sure, the usual door handle mechanisms and window clips, and stuff like CV boots. I put a new MAF and DISA valve. I put a new water pump and thermostat in it, but that was more preventative maintenance.

I rebuilt the front suspension this year, when I replaced the axle shafts. But that was probably unnecessary, in retrospect, as all it really needed was one CV boot. Total parts cost was about $800.

Probably the most expensive single thing I had to replace was the alternator, which the Napa in Nova Scotia wanted $300 for (the dealer wanted close to $1000, just for the part!).

The last alternator I replaced, on my Ford pickup, was $35...

So, to me, anyway, I think these are pretty robust and long-lasting cars.

And when this one dies, I'll look for another secondhand one.

(BTW, the "about 50% every five years" rule works out here. The car sold new for about $50,000. I paid $25,000 after five years. At the ten year mark, it was worth about $12,500. Today, it is hovering around ten, perhaps less).

[Daka]

Well guys
After the bad experience with "them" advertising a "service loaner" as a new car and not revealing it till I noticed on the paperwork at the salesman's desk that the car had 2800 + miles on it, and them telling me that that didn't matter because it "had not been registered"
and since it was to be a lease why worry....VERY BAD IDEA TO SCREW WITH ME LIKE THAT.
Now, that the "GET A NEW CAR THOUGHT" has worn off I'm keeping my MINT CONDITION 58,000 MILE EQUIPED LIKE WE LIKE IT CAR till the wheels fall oft (well for a few more years anyway)
I was willing to accept $14,000 for it on a trade...no idea what they would have offered as I stormed out...I HATE DEALING WITH THE LOW LIFE LYING POS DEALERS in the first place....
I realise it is generally not the salespeople, it's the MANAGERS who think that we are stupid....welll, guess what VISTA MOTORS FLORIDA you have lost me as a BUYER and as a SERVICE CUSTMER

[Robert Platt Bell]

My family was in the car business. My Grandfather owned (with his brothers) a Buick dealership in New Jersey.

Your experience is not atypical. Why is this? Well, buying a brand-new car simply isn't a logical proposition, no matter how you slice it. When the same car, a year old (or even a day old), costs 10-15% less, it makes no sense to buy a new car.

So they have to resort to trickery, playing on your emotions, selling on monthly payments, using leases (with all that fine print and back-in charges) and the inflated trade gag, and well, there is a litany of tricks they use.

The biggest one is to keep you there for four or five hours, so your blood sugar goes low and you agree to anything (it can backfire, as at very low blood sugar levels, people get mad and "storm out" as you did). It is all a cheap psychological game. After the first three hours, you feel you have time "invested" in the matter, and many folks end up signing whatever is put in front of them.

I remember one dealer taking a $500 deposit, and then presenting a different deal ($1500 more) at the "closing table" an hour later. Of course, I backed out, but they claimed my check was "locked in the safe" and the bookkeeper had gone home for the night. They promised to return the check to me. I put a stop payment on the check, and the next morning, they tried to cash it. That is, of course, outright thievery and deception. And I wasn't really all that surprised.

I pretty much gave up on car dealers after that.

Edmunds had an article about one man's experience as a car salesman:

Confessions of a Car Salesman

A lot of folks think they are being financially astute by buying (or worse yet, leasing) one new car after another, to "avoid costly repairs". But as I noted above, I've driven my X5 100,000 miles since I've had it, and other than tires, maybe spend $2000 on parts for it. Of course, it pays to be handy with tools. Even with mechanic's labor, you are maybe talking $5000 overall. Not a lot of money compared to the $25,000 more I would have paid for the car new (not to mention insurance costs).

Consumer magazines, the television, and the press put up articles on "how to beat the dealer" and they are mostly nonsense. You can't "beat the dealer" anymore than cattle going to the slaughterhouse is going to beat the captured-bolt gun and the abattoir.

The best car values are late model, low mileage used cars, bought from an individual, preferably the original owner, who has all the service records. A lot of those cars are out there, but few people seek them out. Most folks trot off to a car dealer, even to buy a used car (ugh!).

You will thank yourself for walking away from that lease. People say, "Well, I'm making $100,000 a year, I can afford to lease a new BMW every three years!" But although they can afford the monthly payment, the dent to their overall net worth is significant. And once a person retires, they wish they had all that lease money back.

I live on a retirement island, and I see it all. I recall one couple who boasted of leasing new Cadilliacs every three years, for three decades. They are trying to live on Social Security now, and it ain't working out to well.

See:

Living Stingy: NEVER Lease a Car!

Leasing really makes little sense, unless you are running a business and can write-off 100% of the lease cost. But even then, it is often more profitable (although more of a hassle) to buy a vehicle secondhand, and take the mileage deduction (55 cents a mile, I think now) or depreciate it on your taxes.

FWIW! You dodged a bullet!

P.S. - why can't buying a new car be a pleasant experience? I don't get it. GM tried, with Saturn, to detoxify the process, and, well, we know how that worked out.

Can you imagine buying things like groceries, using the sales techniques of car dealers? We'd all starve to death.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by Daka

......the car had 2800 + miles on it, and them telling me that that didn't matter because it "had not been registered".......

Had the same happen to me at Dayton Andrews Dodge in St Pete, FL.

The owner (Dayton) and his son (Taylor) would put a few thousand miles on some of the Vipers that came from the factory to their dealership. There was a '96 RT10 on the showroom floor in the fall of '96, rare color, pearl white w/ blue fang stripes, I was told it was new and was interested in purchasing it. The deal fell thru when I discovered it had over 2k miles and they would not take any less then FULL STICKER for the car and were only willing to knock off the luxury tax. I walked.

A few months later ('97) I was intent on buying my first Viper, there was a red RT/10 on D Andrews showroom floor, went in (with now ex-wife and son, they knew I was not out 'kicking tires"), informed them I was interested, was told only the sales manager deals the Vipers and he is at a tent sale the dealership has out at the Tyrone Mall, they would call him in to speak with me. Waited over an hour for SM (mall is under 5 mins away). After a short discussion on the floor to get an idea of what kind of #s we were looking at I asked for a test drive of the car, he asked if I have driven a Viper before and responded that I have indeed driven several, he responded "they all drive the same" and we needed to go to his office and work the deal! Told him to go pound sand up his azz and walked out.

The following weekend I noticed Kenyon Dodge in Clearwater, FL had a red Viper identical to the one I walked on, Kenyon had no problem opening the showroom up, moving 4 cars to get the Viper outside, and allowing me to drive THE car I was intent on buying.

After the deal was done I made sure to stop by D Andrews with my new Viper, the look on the sales managers face was priceless!!!!