Considering a 4.8i or 35d E70

[shorty04]

Hi all

My wife and I are owners of a 2004 530i. We have two dogs and a baby on the way and are considering an X5 to replace the 5 series.

I had my heart set on a 2008/2009 X5 4.8i because of the performance delivered by the V8. However, after reading some issues (ie: valley pan leaks) I felt the risk of having to foot a $3-4k unexpectedly on the car was a bit out of my comfort zone. I've owned BMW's all my life and always have a good contingency fund set aside, but it seems that the V8 may be incredibly expensive to maintain.

I've also seen a few 2009 X5 35d with low miles that fall in our price range, and offer a bit more in savings with the fuel efficiency of the vehicle. I guess the down side to the 35d is that from what I am seeing, many of them do not come equipped with adaptive drive and some of the bells and whistles more commonly seen on the 4.8i.

I guess my main question is - how unreliable is the 4.8i? Does the valley pan leak happen inevitably to all V8's, and is there an approximate mileage that these problems start to appear? What I am hoping to find out is when shopping for a used 4.8i with 100,000km (60,000miles), will I have to sink a bunch of money to replace the cooling system right away, or is it something that should be done closer to 100,000 miles?

Right now I am leaning more towards the 35d. Even though they are 3-4k more expensive than the 4.8i, they do offer better fuel economy and the torque from the diesel makes it still sporty and enjoyable. That's primarily why I am not considering a 3.0 at this time.

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated

[ZetaTre]

Leaving fuel economy off the table for a second and speaking as a 35d happy owner, the 4.8i would be a better option.

You hear very very little things going on with those engine.

You mention the valley pan coolant line and I suggest you look at the All German Auto solution which reduces labor and cost significantly -> 11-14-1-439-975 BMW N62 Coolant Pipe | AGA Products. You sound like the type of guy who does his research well, so you'll find lots of info on it.

There's a couple of other things you should look into, I'm not entirely certain it applies to that specific V8.

Oil leaks from the vacuum pump (the V8 use Valvetronic so there's no intake vacuum to run the brake booster. The car has a vacuum pump driven by one of the exhaust cam). Oil leaks are not uncommon on BMW but that particular one tend to leak profusely. I believe that there's an alternative out there that replaces it using Viton O-Rings. Otherwise BMW will sell you the whole pump with the same crappy Buna-N orings.

There's also valve seals that leak causing blue smoke.

The 35d on the other hand is not problem free either: from NOx sensors, to cracked EGR coolers, crappy thermostats, shorted throttle butterfly, water leaks causing shorted injectors, failure of the glow plug control module, SCR injector, SCR temperature/level sensor [and probably a bunch of other stupid things that add up]... It has better mileage and don't get me wrong I like it a lot, but it is not less problematic by any stretch of the imagination. Perhaps even more and that's why I started off saying leave fuel economy aside... That makes up for a bit of it...

The good thing for you if they are both well known and documented; nonetheless you need a similar "contingency plan set aside" in either case.

Just some food for thoughts.

[Jyohay]

you should consider a 35xdrive 2011 vs the 4.8.
the 35xdrive is better on fuel economy and actually FASTER than the 4.8 in every aspect.
id be comparing a 35d vs 35xdrive instead.
you can even get a tune for the 35xrive (i have a cobb) or also a JBD for the 35d.
not sure what your price range is but i would look into those.
2011s will be LCI so CIC and lci exterior.
you however do not get the newer headlights in a 2011.

[shorty04]

Thank you both for the very helpful replies. It's good to know a bit more on some of the issues with the xDrive35d. I think what scares me a bit are some folks having to shell out $5k+ to fix valve seal leaks and some other issues with the V8. The problems with the 35d don't appear to be *as* expensive to fix.

I have considered the xDrive35i and they are priced within $1k of the xDrive35d. They're a good option, but don't offer as much savings in fuel economy as the xDrive35d which puts us at the top end of our budget. With a baby on the way, id have a hell of a time convincing my wife to spend a bit more.

It's a funny thing buying a car with a spouse. I bought and paid for my 530i on my own, and she doesn't really understand that sometimes its worth it to pay a bit more and reduce some of the risks associated with an older or higher mileage car. At least with the diesel, I can justify some of the cost (when compared to the price of a xDrive48i) because of the fuel efficiency. Anyways, I digress...!

[BGM]

Originally Posted by Jyohay

you should consider a 35xdrive 2011 vs the 4.8.
the 35xdrive is better on fuel economy and actually FASTER than the 4.8 in every aspect.

The 4.8 and 35i are the same as far as performance. Not sure where you get the 35i is "faster than the 4.8 in every aspect".

[cbracerx]

Originally Posted by BGM

The 4.8 and 35i are the same as far as performance. Not sure where you get the 35i is "faster than the 4.8 in every aspect".

Indeed, 35i is not as fast as 4.8i - at least as measured by the popular magazines, or BMW themselves.

I went through this dilemma of choice recently and ended up with a 4.8i. Drove all three engines. The V8 presented to me as a smooth powerplant for a high end vehicle (wife also liked it better...). The price was quite a bit better also, and I'm not afraid of DIY fixes if need be. And equipment level was excellent, including Adaptive Drive. Some of the diesel based parts (DPF) are scary expensive. I've seen 4.8i's for sale with well over 100K miles on them.

I wanted to like the 35d the most, but in the end the V8 won my wallet.

[Socale39]

I recently purchased a 2011 35d and absolutely love it. When I was first looking at X5s I was planning on getting a 48i but that quickly changed once I realized the issues with the 48i and the fact that I could have plenty of power and features if I just spent a little more for a LCI diesel. Extremely happy with my purchase so far after about 500 miles of ownership. Oh and the CIC is light years better than CCC iDrive.

[fepat55]

Shorty 04 I can give you a bit of my experience from my 2008 4.8I. I have had it since it had 10,000 km on it. It currently has 259,000 km.
I changed the coolant every 2 years religiously and my coolant crossover tube failed this summer at 251,000 km . So your comment that they will all fail is correct. The rubber seals on the end of the tube fails , not the tube. And the cost is about 3, 000 to replace it/
As for costs, this is an expensive vehicle . So accordingly you cost of maintenance will be higher. Whether the 4.8i is higher than the diesel I doubt. The engine just started to use some oil , and this week a DRL bulb failed. I now have to replace the valve cover gaskets. So the depreciation i was paying is now being replaced by repair costs. I followed the maintenance plan that is supplied by Mike Miller ( in Roundel). I would highly recommend transmission oil changes since I haven't had any problems with mine and the engine is still strong. I haven't really had any electrical gremlins other than the radio changes stations or turns on by itself ocassionally ( i had replaced the radio a few years ago.) . I am lothe to get rid of it because of the performance and features.

If you really want to know what the repair bills will be, send me a private note. I keep a spreasheet on all the repairs , etc So I have all the information in one xcel spreadsheet. Ill send it to you . You can decide for yourself.

[BGM]

Originally Posted by fepat55

Shorty 04 I can give you a bit of my experience from my 2008 4.8I. I have had it since it had 10,000 km on it. It currently has 259,000 km.
I changed the coolant every 2 years religiously and my coolant crossover tube failed this summer at 251,000 km . So your comment that they will all fail is correct. The rubber seals on the end of the tube fails , not the tube. And the cost is about 3, 000 to replace it/
As for costs, this is an expensive vehicle . So accordingly you cost of maintenance will be higher. Whether the 4.8i is higher than the diesel I doubt. The engine just started to use some oil , and this week a DRL bulb failed. I now have to replace the valve cover gaskets. So the depreciation i was paying is now being replaced by repair costs. I followed the maintenance plan that is supplied by Mike Miller ( in Roundel). I would highly recommend transmission oil changes since I haven't had any problems with mine and the engine is still strong. I haven't really had any electrical gremlins other than the radio changes stations or turns on by itself ocassionally ( i had replaced the radio a few years ago.) . I am lothe to get rid of it because of the performance and features.

If you really want to know what the repair bills will be, send me a private note. I keep a spreasheet on all the repairs , etc So I have all the information in one xcel spreadsheet. Ill send it to you . You can decide for yourself.

if you have 160K miles on an '08, then yes, you're going to blow through a lot of repairs--that is almost 20K miles a year which is not at all normal wear and tear. I have an '08 at the other spectrum with only 70K miles on it. Yes, I have had some repairs (all under CPO), so if asking me I would say all has been normal so far. My coolant system has been fine and I'm in stop and go traffic with temps of 100 degrees in the Texas summer. My $.02.

[the_ulf]

You have to weigh up the savings in buying a reasonably well preserved N62 with low mileage vs the fuel savings you'd see in an N54/N55 or M57. N62s aren't exactly the crown jewel in BMW's history but you can be just as unlucky with any of the others. I'd have preferred to buy a 35i instead of the 4.8i but spending the extra $20k to buy (used) I'd probably never make that money back in fuel savings, bearing in mind that on a recent 2500km trip through BC & Alberta I achieved about 10l/100km, which isn't bad at all for a nearly 2.5t behemoth. 35i owners, I'm guessing N54 specifically, also complain about lag, which you won't get with the V8. valley pipe seal leak hasn't happened for me (yet) at almost 140,000km and all in all the car is very enjoyable to drive and absolutely crammed with options you often won't get in the "budget" 35d. It really depends on your priorities. I wouldn't want to swap mine for any of the others.