CEL came on, code P203a. Active tank replaced. **77k mile update, Passive Tank bad!

[scollins]

***6/10/15 Update at bottom of post!!***

Mostly just venting......

2010 X535D with 65,000 miles.

Over the past 2 months, our CEL has come on a few times, and gone away. I've scanned the code each time, and it comes back "P203A" on my Creader VI. This last time, it didn't go away (I never tried to clear the code with the Creader VI), so I figured it was time to get it to the dealer for a look-see.

Finally got the X5 into the dealer today to look at it, as we are approaching 70,000 miles, and the code appears to be related to the emission system. WA cars are required to have CA emissions, so we also get BMW CA Emission warranty of 7/70.

Dealer calls today, and says the problem appears to be coming from the fuel filter heater. This is odd, because every time I search for P203A, it comes back as a DEF related issue. Anyway, they have the "special" computer that reads things better, and that is what they found after hours of looking.

Of course, they are telling me this isn't covered under the CA 7/70 emission warranty. First she tells me that we are in WA not CA, so the CA warranty doesn't apply. I have a copy of the BMW warranty, downloaded from BMW's website, that says otherwise.

Quote is for $637 plus tax, and the part is not in stock. I say that is unacceptable, and this needs to be elevated to BMW NA for resolution. Additionally, I learned that this part was subject to a recall, but only for vehicles made up to 11/2009. Our is a mid-2010 build, the last of the MY2010 to roll off the assembly line. My experience tells me they didn't quite get the fix right....

The SA asks if I considered the Extended Warranty on this vehicle. At $5,000 (WA State adds 9.8% sales tax onto it), I said if the X5 costs me even half of that out of pocket in repairs before 100,000 miles, it will be gone. I've already had to fight with them to replace a battery that died after 2.5 years (we were past the 50,000 mile mark), and I can't help but wonder if this fuel filter heater didn't help kill the battery too.

So, now I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer about next steps. I think beyond that, I may be done with the X5 and looking at the next vehicle. Might even consider leasing, just so that I dump these modern lemons before issues start cropping up.

Hell, even my Toyota Tacoma hasn't been the role-model of reliability that they were once known for. I swear I'm not that old, so it pains me to say "I guess they just don't make them like they used......"



OH! And we just dumped $1,400 into new tires for it last month! And of course, earlier this week the wife drives over a nail and we get a leak! Caught soon enough to be repaired, even though I have Discount Tire certificates for replacement. I guess if I go to trade in/sell the X5, I will have to point out the brand new tires.....



Update on 6/10/15 and 77,000 miles, the Passive DEF tank sensors are now bad and need to be replaced!

The X5 has been throwing a new code over the past 2 months, P281A. I've cleared it a few times with my Creader VI, and it has mostly gone away for extended periods if I top off both DEF tanks.

The last time it threw the code, I noticed a lot of urea crystals around the filler spout for the active tank. Topped it off and cleaned it up. Shortly afterwards, I was in at BMW Seattle for an oil change, and I mentioned the error codes. They did a scan and came back with this:
"Confirmed SES light on. SCR Passive Tank sensor fault. 4 times. Performed test module. Accessed connector. wiring and signal voltage ok. sensors in tank failed. recommend replace."

Estimate? $2,200 plus tax. OUCH!!!!! And great timing, as we were shopping for a new X5 to replace this one (I called it a ticking time bomb, I waited too long.....)

Well, in working with both BMW Seattle and BMW NA, I got the repair covered at 100%, and promptly placed an order for a 2015 X5 35i. I'm done with the diesel because of the emissions crap that is required to be on it. About the only way I'd consider a diesel again is on a lease that ends before the 4/50k warranty is up.

Naturally the part is not in stock ANYWHERE in the US right now, so it will be a few weeks. I'm guessing it will arrive about the time I go to pick up the new X5.

[seattle]

Which dealership? Tacoma, Seattle or Bellevue?
Had an emissions related CEL at 49,940 miles. Appointment took a couple days to get to, was at 50,100 by that time. The SA started to give me BS about "mileage CEL happened" vs "mileage in the shop". I then pulled the CA emissions warranty on them. They were a bit surprised. It took a loud voise and a supervisor in the office to get things going.
In the end, got 2 sensors fixed free of charge under emissions warranty. Did not pay for the loander either.

Tell the SA to do her homework regarding emissions warranty. Another example why one needs to be prepared before talking to them - and you did.

[scollins]

Bellevue. We actually bought it at Fife back in September 2010, because Fife had the only Diesel with a 3rd row in the entire area.

But you are right about being prepared. I swear I know more about the cars than the SA's do, and maybe even some tech's. Yes, I'm being a little facetious, at least with regards to the tech's (not the SA's though.)

A few weeks ago the switch for the parking brake broke off. Ordered the part from Tischer, and a set of non-marring trim tools, and it was fixed for about $90. I can only imagine what the dealer would charged for that. I'm actually surprised the damn car didn't need a reprogramming after changing the switch.....

[xodus]

I never had good experience with BMW Bellevue. Good luck with repair.

[seattle]

Originally Posted by xodus

I never had good experience with BMW Bellevue. Good luck with repair.

Fife was worse, which is why I started going to Bellevue.
At Fife, I complained of driver window trim creaking. Was told it was due to - wait for it - tint! The tech, with a straight face, told me the window now is thicker due to tint, hence the creak.
Took it to Bellevue and had it fixed.

[ard]

You need better info from the SA...

I do not believe they have a 'different' or 'better' reader- I beleive that they ran some testplans and got different codes.

You need to ask:
1. What are ALL the codes that were present at initial inspection? BMW specific codes.
2. What SPECIFIC test plans were run? What were the results?
3. Why does BMWNA (not the tech, but BMWNA) believe the test plan is identifying the specific failure reported on the original RO?

See: Ses code p203a - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Lots of reports of DEF issues, tank, etc...all covered under CA warranty.

But of they just blithely erase error codes then run emissions test plans, they may (MAY) be 'finding' issues that are not your original complaint.

I would NOT replace the fuel heater, unless they do it for free...Not even if they cut you a break on price/labor- next time you get a code they 'story' will be "Oh, another thing went bad". If they wont fix the DEF tank, take it back until it faults again. Build your paper trail.

IMHO

[scollins]

Originally Posted by ard

You need better info from the SA...

I do not believe they have a 'different' or 'better' reader- I beleive that they ran some testplans and got different codes.

You need to ask:
1. What are ALL the codes that were present at initial inspection? BMW specific codes.
2. What SPECIFIC test plans were run? What were the results?
3. Why does BMWNA (not the tech, but BMWNA) believe the test plan is identifying the specific failure reported on the original RO?

See: Ses code p203a - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Lots of reports of DEF issues, tank, etc...all covered under CA warranty.

But of they just blithely erase error codes then run emissions test plans, they may (MAY) be 'finding' issues that are not your original complaint.

I would NOT replace the fuel heater, unless they do it for free...Not even if they cut you a break on price/labor- next time you get a code they 'story' will be "Oh, another thing went bad". If they wont fix the DEF tank, take it back until it faults again. Build your paper trail.

IMHO

I pressed them today about it, as they offered to cover 80% of the cost. I said to go ahead, as I need my car back, and I'm looking at less than the cost of the heater part this way ($200 from Tischer, although I saw prices as low as $168). I also told them I need a loaner car if it extends past tomorrow.

I also said I need to have ALL the codes and specifics spelled out on the invoice, that I wanted everything documented, including my concerns about code P203A. I even have a picture of the code reader screen (before I bought the Creader VI), so I have that for the paper trail as well.

I told the SA that my specific concern was that the error code is related to the SCR system, more specifically the DEF tank, and I'm close enough to the 70000 mile limit on the CA warranty that I'm worried I'll be over that the next time the code is thrown. If they aren't seeing that as an issue, but it finally becomes apparent after I pass 70,000 miles, I will be quite upset. I didn't specifically say what actions I would take, but I implied that it could become legal.

I almost hope at this point that the code is permanently stored, or it appears again soon, so I can take it to a different dealer for a "second opinion."

After I get the car back, and have the paperwork, I may submit a complaint the NHSTA about it. Scratch that, I WILL file a complaint with the NHSTA, just more "paper trail", because I'm fairly certain I will need it. It might also prompt an expanded recall action, since this part has a history of failing.....

[bawareca]

On the other hand it may be just the heater.The current BMW diagnostic system ,ISTA,is accurate enough,plus there are quite good self-test capabilities built-in the control modules.Pure electric fault,open or short circuit,or resistance out of specs,are easy to determine.But having a paper trail is never a bad idea.
That DEF tank is problematic,especially in the early models,but the European tuner I am working with is almost ready with a solution for DPF and DEF off.No CEL,no emission stuff,never put more DEF or buy parts for the tanks.

[ard]

DO NOT take delieverd of the car, nor return the loaner, until the paperwork has precisely what you want.

Dont arrive there at 6PM hoping for the best.... have them fax it to you in advance. You dont want them saying "oh the tech didnt get that to me, I'll get it to you ____". You want it ALL on the work order. A picture of your scanner or emails from the SA are not the same as the written repair orders and work orders.

I still believe the code your car threw (and that they should have read on arrival) are different than a fuel filter heater code....

IMO

PS 80%? That means BMWNA is covering at warranty rates- they wanted an extra 20% from you. Nice

[seattle]

It either IS an emissions issue or NOT. Can't be "80% emissions related", "therefore we will cover 80% of costs". They practically admitted to it being an emissions issue. Why do you let them get 20% from you?
Did you involve their tech manager? I am telling you, raising your voice does help!