35D DEF Tank Level Sensor Issue

[Doug Huffman]

ALL vehicles with DEF are disabled on empty. The BMW will run empty but not restart.

[bawareca]

Originally Posted by jfoj

I have a real problem with the fact that the DEF being low or having a erroneous warning can cause the car not to start. I assume this is the case due to the warning?

I realize there are a number of other situations that could cause a no start situation like running out of fuel, running your battery down or any of a number of other failures, but come on, DEF being low is going to leave you stranded. Just one more reliability problem.

I would love to read the EPA requirements that dictates that the vehicle needs to be disabled until the DEF tank is filled. If this is stated, the government again looking out of the consumers best interest, NOT!

With the high failure rate of the sensors in these tanks and the high tank cost due to the sensors not to being serviceable, I can see many people looking for a work around that in the end will probably cause these vehicles to put out excessive emissions. Not going to be a pretty long term situation for BMW or other manufacturers that have these high failure rates.

I mean one of the members is in need of the 3rd replacement tank?? Not very encouraging.

It is a 1000 miles warning. if you cannot fix the problem within this interval, the DEF is not your real problem in life Pretty much every gas station now sells it and every truck stop has it.

[jfoj]

Originally Posted by bawareca

It is a 1000 miles warning. if you cannot fix the problem within this interval, the DEF is not your real problem in life Pretty much every gas station now sells it and every truck stop has it.

Except when the warming is false because the level sensor is bad!!!

It seems this is one of the failure modes of the system.

If my fuel gauge fails, I can monitor my fuel usage using the Trip Odometer and drive for months without running out of fuel. Does not sound like this is the case with DEF level.

[jfoj]

Originally Posted by Doug Huffman

ALL vehicles with DEF are disabled on empty. The BMW will run empty but not restart.

So you can run out of DEF and be a polluter, but you cannot restart the vehicle. Sounds like a rather STUPID process.

I personally would be disabling this feature very quickly even if the system worked properly and I would never run low on DEF.

There is no reason to disable the vehicle due to no DEF in my opinion.

More Nannygate and big brother that I do not need.

I can just think how many times my wife has run her car on fumes then told me I was elected to drive to the gas station to fill up her car. It is fine for me to walk, just not her!!!!

[bawareca]

The last thing I will add is that the system is smart enough to sense the exhaust quality and know when there is actual DEF is sprayed. Level sensor failure does not necessarily disable the vehicle, even less so immediately. If this function is not required by law no one will bother to pour DEF. If the catalytic converters are not required by the law most will remove them or never replace them when they stop working. This is the human nature.

[Alan Smithee]

Originally Posted by jfoj

There is no reason to disable the vehicle due to no DEF in my opinion.

More Nannygate and big brother that I do not need.

So you must be fine with VW's recently publicized actions.

Whether you keep driving without DEF (in a car so equipped) or install a software cheat in a non-DEF VW, either way you are emitting NOx levels above federally mandated limits, which are there for a good reason.

Ever been to a heavily populated country that does not have emissions controls?

[jfoj]

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee

So you must be fine with VW's recently publicized actions.

No, not fine with VW's actions what so ever. They cheated and got caught, but it also shows you how lazy the EPA is that they had to rely on West VA University to actually put a test system in the trunk and probe the tailpipe.

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee

Whether you keep driving without DEF (in a car so equipped) or install a software cheat in a non-DEF VW, either way you are emitting NOx levels above federally mandated limits, which are there for a good reason.

Here is the problem I have, screw BMW or whomever configured the car to not start if there is not enough DEF in the tank. Let's make somewhat of a parallel, if you are driving a gasoline vehicle that has a O2 sensors that is not working and/or a catalytic converter that is inefficient, the car is not programmed to not start. An indicator comes on the dash and alerts the driver to a problems. The exact same thing can be configured when the DEF tank is empty. Once the tank is empty the mileage warnings stop and a yellow indicator/warning comes on. Then it is up to the operator to take action to remedy the situation. The vehicle would not be eligible for Emission Testing, but this assumes the Diesels are even tested for Emissions, which in many locations are exempt. Diesels should not be exempt from Emission testing IMHO.

The cars are currently booby trapped to leave someone stranded and this is BS. I am not one to remove and bypass emission systems, but I would clearly bypass the no start situation in a heartbeat. Not to operate the vehicle without DEF, but to be able to operate the car without DEF if necessary. Whether is be the DEF tank is empty for some reason or there is a failure in the DEF system.

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee

Ever been to a heavily populated country that does not have emissions controls?

Yes, I lived in LA for a while!!

[TriX5]

eeeh, like....China?

Pollution controls are necessary but to disable a vehicle is nonsense. Once these cars fall into the hands of the "last" owners there'll plenty of people working around that feature.

[bawareca]

It is what it is, I've accepted the risk and learn to live with it. Praemonitus praemunitus.
One can be disabled with a flat tire on Pikes peak or overheated engine at Mojave with no warning at all.

[Doug Huffman]

Originally Posted by bawareca

It is what it is, I've accepted the risk and learn to live with it. Praemonitus praemunitus.
One can be disabled with a flat tire on Pikes peak or overheated engine at Mojave with no warning at all.

Well said! Forewarned is forearmed. Good people ought to be armed as they will, with wits and guns and The Truth.