Altitude Issues 08 X5 3.0

[GrandCanyonx5]

I appreciate all the great post's on the forum and hope to have some insight toward understanding my first X5. We've had Range Rovers for the past 3 models and downsized to the X5. We live at a fairly high altitude above 7,000 feet and the car generally runs fine, hesitation at low RPM began a bit ago. We ran to Los Angeles at sea level 2 weeks ago and the car would barely stay running at low RPM and if I pushed it at all the check engine light would blink and the engine sounded like it was misfiring, the check engine light is now on fulltime. I'd have to pull over on the freeway and shut if off. Restarting it would start and idle fine, then repeat if I pushed too hard. I replaced the battery a month or so ago, new oil and filters about the same as well as air filter. I'd appreciate any help at all, we are 4 hours from the nearest dealer in Vegas.

[ingenieur]

Originally Posted by GrandCanyonx5

I appreciate all the great post's on the forum and hope to have some insight toward understanding my first X5. We've had Range Rovers for the past 3 models and downsized to the X5. We live at a fairly high altitude above 7,000 feet and the car generally runs fine, hesitation at low RPM began a bit ago. We ran to Los Angeles at sea level 2 weeks ago and the car would barely stay running at low RPM and if I pushed it at all the check engine light would blink and the engine sounded like it was misfiring, the check engine light is now on fulltime. I'd have to pull over on the freeway and shut if off. Restarting it would start and idle fine, then repeat if I pushed too hard. I replaced the battery a month or so ago, new oil and filters about the same as well as air filter. I'd appreciate any help at all, we are 4 hours from the nearest dealer in Vegas.

Sounds like an ignition issue - possible spark plug(s) or coils(s). The plugs should be changed every 50 - 60k as one the 2009 and later 6 cyl.
Stop by a Pep boys or Autozone and have the fault codes readout.

[bawareca]

Generic code reading never ends well in the BMW world. The OEM level tools are so stupidly affordable now, it is a shame to not have one.
I still remember when i was paying over a grand for GT1 head 7-8 years ago. And it would work 2-3 months if one is lucky.

[ingenieur]

Originally Posted by bawareca

Generic code reading never ends well in the BMW world. The OEM level tools are so stupidly affordable now, it is a shame to not have one.
I still remember when i was paying over a grand for GT1 head 7-8 years ago. And it would work 2-3 months if one is lucky.

Quite true...

[jfoj]

If the SES/CEL/MIL is on, you DO NOT need a manufacturer specific tool, for a BMW or any other model.

For driveability OBDII is a very good system and with the exception for a few minor things, a generic OBDII tool it all you really need. You would be surprised what you can do with the smart phone/tablet Apps that are $10 or less.

Manufacturer proprietary codes DO NOT light the SES/CEL/MIL, they can often offer a slight bit more info, but the data is usually not required.

Sounds like you are running into misfires because the SES/CEL/MIL is blinking. Often shutting the engine off and restarting it will clear Misfire with Fuel Cutoff for some period of time.

A decent OBDII tool that supports Live/Realtime data that will give you Fuel Trim info would be very helpful at this point.

Although will not help you at this moment, suggest you investigate OBDFusion for your smart phone.

I keep one of the cheaper OBDII wireless interfaces in each car so I always have an OBDII tool with me.

I have plenty of pro level and manufacturer specific tools, but they are too expensive and too bulky to leave in a vehicle full time.

[GrandCanyonx5]

Originally Posted by GrandCanyonx5

I appreciate all the great post's on the forum and hope to have some insight toward understanding my first X5. We've had Range Rovers for the past 3 models and downsized to the X5. We live at a fairly high altitude above 7,000 feet and the car generally runs fine, hesitation at low RPM began a bit ago. We ran to Los Angeles at sea level 2 weeks ago and the car would barely stay running at low RPM and if I pushed it at all the check engine light would blink and the engine sounded like it was misfiring, the check engine light is now on fulltime. I'd have to pull over on the freeway and shut if off. Restarting it would start and idle fine, then repeat if I pushed too hard. I replaced the battery a month or so ago, new oil and filters about the same as well as air filter. I'd appreciate any help at all, we are 4 hours from the nearest dealer in Vegas.

I've ordered an OBDII reader so that we have one since we're so far away. It's just strange that the condition worsens the lower the altitude.

[bawareca]

Originally Posted by jfoj

If the SES/CEL/MIL is on, you DO NOT need a manufacturer specific tool, for a BMW or any other model.

Absolutely!
Generic reader will give you a code for O2 sensor, but which one it is? Or cam sensor code, but is it electric fault or timing problem? Or a fuel trim problem, what could that be?
ISTA/D can be downloaded for free from many places and K+Dcan cable is $25.

[jfoj]

Originally Posted by bawareca

Absolutely!
Generic reader will give you a code for O2 sensor, but which one it is? Or cam sensor code, but is it electric fault or timing problem? Or a fuel trim problem, what could that be?
ISTA/D can be downloaded for free from many places and K+Dcan cable is $25.

No disrespect to you other others that commented, about generic OBDII tools.

Tens of thousands of vehicles are repaired each day using generic OBDII tools. Additionally EVERY state emission inspection station uses generic OBDII to verify the engine performance.

You has a generic OBDII will give you a code for an O2 sensor, but which one you ask, the generic OBDII tool will CLEARLY give you the exact Bank and sensors number without a problem.

A cam timing code, will it be electrical or a timing problem. Generic OBDII tools can CLEARLY give you information if the problem is electrical, it may or may not help with timing, however, specific timing problems are few and far between and you can usually get a good idea if there it a cam timing problem.

OBDII can clearly give you Fuel Trim info and based on other data, assuming you have any experience you can easily figure out or rule out problems.

Oh, and BTW can does BMW specific software actually Log PID's, I doubt it.

Does BMW specific software CLEARLY show Fuel System Status, usually not.

Does BMW specific software REQUIRE you to have a laptop in the car at all times, yes.

Does BMW specific software output in .CSV file format, not that I have seen.

Does BMW specific software support Emission Readiness Monitors, many do not!!!

I find manufacturer specialized software or tools is rarely needed for typical driveability problem. Almost anything that can trigger the SES/CEL/MIL can be resolved with a generic OBDII tool and some use of ones brain. Rarely will a manufacturers specialized software or tool give you a silver bullet and tell you what part is bad, few tools do this. Matter of fact, many of the European manufacturer specialized software or tools are very misleading due to language translation errors or general semantics. The "is the glass half full or half empty" type of point of view, I see this ALL the time with BMW related code descriptions.

What continues to get under my skin all day long is the fact how so many people discount generic OBDII tools. They DO support manufacturer specific codes as well as generic or standard OBDII codes. Matter of fact standard and manufacturer specific OBDII codes are consistent and far less confusing then some of the manufacturer proprietary codes.

I have PLENTY of manufacturer specific software and tools as well as a number of very expensive Pro level scan tools, almost as much as most people have tied up in their car, but I ALWAYS start with my smart phone App and unless the problem goes beyond driveability. I resolve almost EVERY problem that triggers a SES/CEL/MIL with OBDFusion for less than $10 and a wireless interface.

So before everyone kicks a generic OBDII tool of any sort to the curb, they need to LEARN about what tools are available and what they can do. You might just be surprised if you open up your mind and actually learn about Apps like OBDFusion and learn how powerful they actually are and what they can actually do.

[bawareca]

You are obviously some kind of genius if you are able to solve problems with generic OBDII tool with the same ease as with BMW software. For most people, including me, this is not possible or takes 10x more time than with the proper tool.
I for one have a few service calls every day from people that have spent thousands on Snap-on or other similar scanners(which are not even generic) that cannot solve problems because of the limited amount of information (and some laziness too :-))).

[jfoj]

Here is the deal, I do have quite a few years experience, but not everyone has a Windows laptop, has the ability to run Virtual machine, has the experience to set up software that is typically not easy to install. And then how many people actually carry their laptop in their car full time or even can drive the car with the laptop in the car and review data?

So like anything, I tell people to learn to crawl before you walk. Start with a decent OBDII smart phone App like OBDFusion for under $10, it is one of the few Apps that works on both Android and iOS. The interface can typically be under $20, but if you want a better quality and faster interface, you buy the OBDLink interface and it comes with an OE version of OBDFusion. So you can have a decent tool for as little as $20 that has many features that most manufacturer software do not have.

If the SES/CEL/MIL lights on the dash, you DO NOT need manufacturer specific software or tool to read codes. Manufacturer proprietary codes DO NOT light the SES/CEL/MIL. Let me REPEAT, manufacturer proprietary codes DO NOT light the SES/CEL/MIL. My reference to a "generic" OBDII tool is a non manufacturer specific tool or software or a Pro level tool that does not have manufacturer specialized software packs. Generic OBDII is a tool that covers the standard and manufacturer specific ODBII codes that WILL light the SES/CEL/MIL on the dash. Manufacturer proprietary codes require either manufacturer software/tool or a Pro level scan tool with manufacturer specialized software packs.

The highly unfortunate part of the industry is the majority of the "mechanics/techs" that make their living in the industry have NO clear idea of why they show up to work each day when it comes to driveability problems. The younger kids (generations text) think you just hook up a computer or tool to the car and it will tell you what parts to replace. It does not work this way at all. ANY and ALL codes, whether generic, manufacturer specific or manufacturer proprietary are really just "clues". All codes, Freeze Frame and Live/Realtime data needs to be reviewed a "thought" about before any action is taken. But so many of the younger kids "knee jerk" and do not even think before they act.

Even with the simplest or best tools, whether Pro level or manufacturer specific I find with O2 sensors that the ONLY time I ever see a code for an O2 sensor problem is with a heater circuit has a problem, usually just a burned out heater, but sometimes can be wiring problems. I use the Logging feature in the smart phone Apps to trend or finger print O2 sensors and can even flag questionable catalytic converters before any P0420/P0430 codes may even pop. I have close friends that work for vehicle manufacturers and even in 2015 manufacturers are still getting misfire and O2 sensor detection wrong and requiring tweaks to the ECU programming.

I use the Logging feature of the $10 or less Apps ALL the time for gather data and help diagnose or verify problems. As you saw, many "mechanics/techs" may be "lazy" but I feel most of them just have no idea what they do on a daily basic and just make guesses. I often deal with really unusual problems that codes often are not helpful with or actually mislead you. I have even been doing a fair amount of component level repair in ECU's lately where few codes, if any were present or not relevant to what the actual problem was.

My point is everyone here needs to open their eyes and mind up and regardless of what tools you may or may not have or use on a daily basis, EVERYONE needs OBDFusion and at least one interface. I have many and leave them in all of my cars. This way I always have a tool with me whether I need it for my car or family or friends cars.

OBDII is actually a VERY good and well thought out system. Some things could have been done differently, BUT think about it, OBDII was implemented in 1996!!! Effectively 20 years ago and it is still relevant and very useful today. Unfortunately it took at least 10+ years for the tools to become cost effective and now they are DIRT cheap. For the price of a few Starbucks Grande Lattes you can have a decent tool that is with you at all times.

Even the person using the tool does not understand what things mean, the reports and .CSV data that these tools output can allow other more experienced people to help out diagnosing the problems.

There is no silver bullet that a manufacturer software or tool can offer, it may be able to offer a bit more insight, but OBDII is actually more useful than it is given credit for.