Need help please!2009 X5 e70 cranks but won't start

jtiffany78 · #1 05-24-2017, 08:32 PM

Hi all,
I'm stalled out trying to diagnose a no start condition on my wife's' diesel. I did a full delete about two months ago (incorrect DEF fluid message, 200 miles to 'no start' (driven down to 10)and a bad EGR drove the decision) from Bimmer Performance Center, did the work myself, they did the flash. I don't think this has anything to do with my problem but I won't rule it out completely.
After the delete it ran (awesome!) for about three weeks, and 500+ miles. One night I stopped to get diesel at a Stripes, drove about 80 miles parked in the garage and it never started again. I suspected bad fuel but a local mechanic tested it and said it was fine, unfortunately he lacked the capability to communicate with the car so he gave up. He said he was able to spray WD40 down the intake (I had NO idea he was going to do that��,he said he disconnected the glow plugs at least) and it Would stay running as long as he kept spraying, then it would die.
I also checked the sending unit and it was pumping fuel out of the tank, fuel filter isn't clogged.
Things of note:
There are NO codes, errors or a CEL.
The oil change is exactly 1100 miles overdue according to the computer (I know, bad owner!)
The odometer is exactly 101000 miles
There were no signs of a problem at any point, no rough idle/running, great acceleration, no smoke.
My current logic train is a fuel pump relay, fuel pump control unit or HPFP. I can't find a relay anywhere that other writeups say it should be. However, I double checked my connections to the ECU and noticed a little panel that attaches to the ECU container popped loose and has the exact same relay. I don't know how common that particular relay is throuout the vehicle and I'm suspicious of the location. Since it was loose I could see how the extra vibration might break the relay but again I can't find anything that says that's where the fuel pump relay lives.
I'm ready to burn this car down though, it ran about 3 weeks in the past year due to all the maintenance but we still owe the bank. Also no shops in this town have the technology to scan the car and all of the shops I called in San Antonio (3 hours away) won't touch the car due to the deletes, stating the deletes are the problem.

Any and all suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
JT

Sponsored Links

jtiffany78 · #2 05-25-2017, 05:48 PM

No thoughts from anybody?

740iS · #3 05-26-2017, 08:52 AM

If it kept running when he was spraying WD-40 down the intake, it seems like you are not getting fuel to the injectors or the injectors are not opening. I would check the relays as you mentioned, but would also check fuel pressure at the rail. If your pressure isn't where it should be, quite possibly a dead or dying fuel pump, since you mention that the filter is fine.

If you have fuel pressure, then communication to the injectors isn't working since you aren't getting any fire. Unfortunately, to diagnose this part you need something that will communicate with the car and see what errors are happening.

Sorry, I don't have a diesel, though I know the mechanics, it's nearly impossible for me to provide any more guidance. I'm not sure of all of the specifics of the BMW diesel. Hopefully, some of the diesel guru's will be able to chime in for you.

pshovest · #4 05-26-2017, 12:21 PM

No diesel experience, but this is what I'd check.
How are you reading codes? Generic OBDII code reader? Does it have live data that allows you to see the fuel pressure? A BMW code reader like Carly will let you see the fuel pressure on gas engines. Gas engines with HPFP's (N54/55 gas turbo engines) have a low pressure fuel sensor which is readable with BMW capable analyzers.
Checking pressure at rail, even if possible, will require special tools as pressure could be >2000 psi. There may be a port downstream of LPFP that you can check to confirm LP pump runs. Should be ~75 psi for gas engine anyway. Can you crack open a low pressure fuel line while cranking to see if nay fuel is being pumped?
Check connection at LPFP in tank, accessible under back seat. Gas E70's had problems with this connector corroding, overheating followed by no fuel pressure. How did Bimmer Performance Center code your car? Did you deliver it to them or did they do this with your laptop connected to the X5? If the latter, perhaps they can scan your car for codes.

bawareca · #5 05-27-2017, 09:06 AM

You need to find a way to read the codes in the DDE first.

jtiffany78 · #6 05-27-2017, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 740iS

If it kept running when he was spraying WD-40 down the intake, it seems like you are not getting fuel to the injectors or the injectors are not opening. I would check the relays as you mentioned, but would also check fuel pressure at the rail. If your pressure isn't where it should be, quite possibly a dead or dying fuel pump, since you mention that the filter is fine.

If you have fuel pressure, then communication to the injectors isn't working since you aren't getting any fire. Unfortunately, to diagnose this part you need something that will communicate with the car and see what errors are happening.

Sorry, I don't have a diesel, though I know the mechanics, it's nearly impossible for me to provide any more guidance. I'm not sure of all of the specifics of the BMW diesel. Hopefully, some of the diesel guru's will be able to chime in for you.

I think you're right about fuel not getting delivered, I'm unsure about whether or not the diesel has a fuel pump relay or if it just has a pump control unit.

jtiffany78 · #7 05-27-2017, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pshovest

No diesel experience, but this is what I'd check.
How are you reading codes? Generic OBDII code reader? Does it have live data that allows you to see the fuel pressure? A BMW code reader like Carly will let you see the fuel pressure on gas engines. Gas engines with HPFP's (N54/55 gas turbo engines) have a low pressure fuel sensor which is readable with BMW capable analyzers.
Checking pressure at rail, even if possible, will require special tools as pressure could be >2000 psi. There may be a port downstream of LPFP that you can check to confirm LP pump runs. Should be ~75 psi for gas engine anyway. Can you crack open a low pressure fuel line while cranking to see if nay fuel is being pumped?
Check connection at LPFP in tank, accessible under back seat. Gas E70's had problems with this connector corroding, overheating followed by no fuel pressure. How did Bimmer Performance Center code your car? Did you deliver it to them or did they do this with your laptop connected to the X5? If the latter, perhaps they can scan your car for codes.

Good idea checking pressure at the rail. I already checked the low pressure pump and it's operating enough to push fuel through the filter. However I'm not sure if it's sufficient to supply the HPFP.
I'm new the the scan tool/code reader world and I'm not sure exactly which features I need to be able to diagnose the fuel system. Since I can't get it to run
and there's no codes or lights showing on the dash I'm hesitant to just buy any old reader in case it doesn't work for me.
As for Bimmer Performance Center, I had to remove the CPU myself and ship it to them. They flashed it on their own computer and sent it back. Had to do it twice because it didn't reset the no start clock and didn't properly ignore the missing components. They updated the firmware on the CPU then everything worked as advertised. Unfortunately we're so far away I can't the car to them to check for codes.

I found a reader from iCarsoft i910II that seems like it'll do the trick but like I said, I don't want to spend a bunch a money on something I'm unsure that will do what I need.

pshovest · #8 05-27-2017, 09:17 PM

Ask for the link to the Rheingold software here.
All BMWs Where to download ISTA/D Rheingold? - Page 201 - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

jtiffany78 · #9 05-27-2017, 11:12 PM

Nice! Thank you

jtiffany78 · #10 02-11-2021, 05:35 PM

@jukkasm...I tried to reply to you PM but it said your profile doesn't allow PM's, even though it was a reply..lol
To anyone else who finds themselves in this situation or the pro's on here who routinely give advice, here's another tool to add to your bag of tricks....

Hello!
I had to re-read my post to remember the details of what was going on...I was sure frustrated with that car though.
What ended up being the problem was that when Bimmer Performance Center flashed the ECU apparently it didn't eliminate the "distance until no start" code, instead it reset it to 500 miles (wasn't their fault per se, rather a glitch in the one's and zero's that randomly happen) However, I had no indication of this on the instrument panel like normal, it just quit starting. Since it's the computer stopping the injection, that's why it was able to run when my joker of a mechanic sprayed starting fluid into it.
Ultimately, when I called Bimmer Performance Center, they had me send it back in to re-flash it. Apparently it's not unheard of...they said once it gets below a certain number of miles until no start, it requires a more comprehensive re-flash. Once I got it back and plugged in it was instantly fixed. And it ran really, really well too, power and fuel economy improved significantly. However I was also happy to get rid of it
....it was a pain to keep fixing.

Hope this helps! I'll answer any other questions you may have after reading this too...
Good luck!

Justin

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukkasm

Hello, I have the exact problem that you had in your X5. What did you do and could you please tell what was the problem. I assume that you did find the problem.

No error codes, and local BMW dealer shops are ripping me off while they hunt the problem. And the car starts to be so old that they are not really interested.
The car is kind of useless during colder times.

best regards,

Jukka, Helsinki, Finland

ps. yes now it is -14 F, it is cold and X5 does not start. Drives me crazy

Sponsored Links