Already broke it - P0015 and Vanos check valve cleaning = stalling

[jcarron2]

Hi All,

Looking for any insight; I picked up a 2008 E70 3.0 /w 208km on it. Have had it for about 2 weeks, and it drives and runs well, occasionally started getting a check engine light, code was P0015 ( 'B' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded Bank 1) which is either Cam sensor, or vanos solenoids per my research.

I decided to go the clean up the vanos solenoids route, and see if there was any change.

This is where I first got into some trouble, as the top solenoid - some genius has stripped the threads there, and need to be very careful when I tighten down the bolt again. I removed and cleaned both solenoids, and verified their operation using a bench power supply - 12v moves the solenoids freely.

I then decided while I was there (really wish I hadn't), to check and clean the VANOS check valves / filters. I didn't find any reference here - but more on E90 forums - (https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...hange-interval)

I pulled the top one out which was covered in black gritty stuff, clearly the flow through this one was restricted. I did clean and reinstall, and also checked the lower one too - it was a bit dirty but nothing like the top one.

After reinstalling these, and starting the engine up, everything seemed great, until about 3 seconds later it started to run super rough and then proceeded to stall.

I've tried cleaning the 2x check valves and solenoids again, with no luck.

My concern is, perhaps when I cleaned the check valves, some debrees was forced through the screen and made it's way through into the vanos solenoid, and then into the vanos inside cylinders the cylinder head?

At the moment, I am unable to get this running again. The vanos solenoids do have both sealing rings installed, as do the small check valves.

I've scanned for codes, and now see multiple misfires, and misfire on each cylinder 1-6. There aren't any other stored codes.

One bit to note, is if I press the gas peddle down, and managed to get the engine to rev over 2500 rpm, its smooth all of the sudden at that RPM... which makes me think vac leak - however I did not remove anything, except for the engine cover - 2x 5mm allens, and slid the air box to the side... so I do not think I've disturbed anything else.

Since this is a valvetronic motor, I don't think there are many places for vac leaks, since the intake manifold isn't under a great vacuum...anyways... I've buggered it up it seems.

I am debating to just replace the 2x solenoids and check valves... and go fro there, but that is the sort of throwing parts at it approach.

Any ideas or suggestions before I set it on fire?

thanks,
Jonathan

[ard]

hmmm
I have zero vanos experience on that car...mine is with the S62 double vanos

As I recall, the vanos activates to provide low rpm cam adjustment. It isnt functioning when you increase RPM- hence your finding if you get it past 2500, the non-functioning vanos no longer causes issues...

Im guessing the car hasnt been warm enough or operating long enough to throw other codes? You will see misfires immediately, but it might not be 'misfires are the only thing wrong'...might not be the primary cause either, just a symptom

Id probably do the cam sensor and the two vanos solendods and checkvaluves- BUT...maybe check the wirign continutiy?

If someone has been inside the motor and maybe messed up the cam timing, you might be in for pain....

[jcarron2]

Originally Posted by ard

As I recall, the vanos activates to provide low rpm cam adjustment. It isnt functioning when you increase RPM- hence your finding if you get it past 2500, the non-functioning vanos no longer causes issues...

Ah, this sounds familiar. Recall something about it will either cause issues in the low or high rpm band.

Originally Posted by ard

Im guessing the car hasnt been warm enough or operating long enough to throw other codes? You will see misfires immediately, but it might not be 'misfires are the only thing wrong'...might not be the primary cause either, just a symptom

That's hard to say, I did drive it around a small block once, very carefully. Didn't seem to make any difference to help, but it wouldn't have warmed up very much, or had a long run time, maybe 3-4 minutes.

Originally Posted by ard

Id probably do the cam sensor and the two vanos solendods and checkvaluves- BUT...maybe check the wirign continutiy?

yeah will check the wiring up to them, and at the connector. Should get about 4 volts there with the ignition ON and engine stopped.

Originally Posted by ard

If someone has been inside the motor and maybe messed up the cam timing, you might be in for pain....

Hopefully not, it seemed in good repair, and was working fine up to this previously, that said anything is possible.

[jcarron2]

Well, a small update.

I gave up trying to clean the solenoid, and ended up just replacing it, and both of the vanos checkvales /filters. After replacing those, the truck started and idled OK, but had a bit of stumble when quickly jabbing the gas. I cleared all adaptations, and exercised the engine at various speeds.... within probably 2 minutes of doing that, things were back to normal.

I dismantled the old valve, and honestly do not see any obvious mechanical issue. There is some wear on the side of the piston, but nothing severe.

I guess the moral of the story with these is is leave well enough alone until it doesn't work, or, be prepared to replace it with a new one if cleaning fails.

I can post some pictures of the insides if anyone is interested.. they're fairly simple inside, nothing unexpected.

thanks for the insight - Jonathan

[Toothbrush]

Glad it got resolved! Do you know what the maint. history for this vehicle is? (did the PO/s stick to recommended oil changes, etc)

[jcarron2]

Originally Posted by Toothbrush

Glad it got resolved! Do you know what the maint. history for this vehicle is? (did the PO/s stick to recommended oil changes, etc)

I only have it from 2013 and onwards, and it's the carproof version, which just states " oil change " and date, no mileage, however from 2013 till now, oil changes every 6 months. Given the vehicle is 8 years old and has 209,000k, a real horrible stab in the dark is it was changed every 12000 km (based on 8 years *25000 km / year).

[Sallier]

I seem to haveta replace these solenoids every other year, kinda a pain as they should last much longer. Well last time I replaced them both, now that I'm getting the error message again and it's only bank one exhaust I'm thinking about only doing that one - which means in another week or two I'll get a bank 2 error...

[jcarron2]

Originally Posted by Sallier

I seem to haveta replace these solenoids every other year, kinda a pain as they should last much longer. Well last time I replaced them both, now that I'm getting the error message again and it's only bank one exhaust I'm thinking about only doing that one - which means in another week or two I'll get a bank 2 error...

Did you also change your vanos checkvalve / filters?

I am hoping I don't run into this. I spent a great deal of time pondering to by the doorknob, err doorman versions off amazon, or actually pay some coin for something that will last..

In the end probably spent a bit more, but I bought it from FCPEuro because they sell the actual BMW part, and offer a lifetime warranty - which that warranty statement is strongly backed up by happy reviews on the forums.

I figure if the OEM part lasted 8 years, then I should be able to get similar, however I will be doing synthetic oil changes every 5-8k. Unfortunately there is no dipstick, so I can no longer go by whenever the oil turns black due to carbon deposits and such from spirited driving.