N63 Transmission, TC, and Diff Fluid change

[ard]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Ravenol is good stuff and he has the 50i so he has the ZF8HP70 8 speed transmission.

1 hour labor is a bit light though I agree but doable if they have done ZF8HP's before.

Its all 'good stuff'. Still shouldn't mix fluids. IMO being a cheerleader for half assed work isnt a great attribute.


1 hr to toss the car on a trans flush machine is 'doable'. Did OP have a detailed "drop the pan, change the ban, reinstall, fill, bring to temp, MEASURE temp, top off" conversation?


Well OP...did you?




Finally, its amazing how people see the ATF maintenance god only after they have shift issues...you wonder where the "ATF fluid change causes tranny issues' old wives tale came about




My bad on the ZF8 vs ZF6 oversight...thx

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by ard

Its all 'good stuff'. Still shouldn't mix fluids. IMO being a cheerleader for half assed work isnt a great attribute.

1 hr to toss the car on a trans flush machine is 'doable'. Did OP have a detailed "drop the pan, change the ban, reinstall, fill, bring to temp, MEASURE temp, top off" conversation?
Well OP...did you?
Finally, its amazing how people see the ATF maintenance god only after they have shift issues...you wonder where the "ATF fluid change causes tranny issues' old wives tale came about
My bad on the ZF8 vs ZF6 oversight...thx

Whoa easy there buddy, not sure whats up with the attitude but nothing "half-assed" about using Ravenol.

It meets and exceeds ZF's specs, it is not "mixing fluids" You know what is half-assed though? Not doing your homework and Telling him to to get the wrong damn fluid, had he listed to you he would have put in ZF6 fluid and smoked his transmission.

The fault is not with people but with BMW's jerk move of telling everyone the transmission fluid is "lifetime". ZF themselves tell you around 70-80K to change it. People of course dont know that and are just following BMW's crap advise which is nothing more then a marketing move.

[robnitro]

Ravenol also makes a legit lf6 fluid along with the lf8 fluid.
I'd be comfortable using ravenol 6, but mercon sp is the best deal for the 6hp.

Also for those who don't want to deal with removing/replacing the pan, a drain and fill (and another one a month or so later) is also good advice.
A few people have cut open the filter in the pan to see how it was not clogged at all. It's just there for big particles, and the magnets on the pan capture tiny particles and there's no problem if it built up. In manual trans, those magnets aren't even serviceable without taking the case apart!

[ard]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Whoa easy there buddy, not sure whats up with the attitude but nothing "half-assed" about using Ravenol.

It meets and exceeds ZF's specs, it is not "mixing fluids" You know what is half-assed though? Not doing your homework and Telling him to to get the wrong damn fluid, had he listed to you he would have put in ZF6 fluid and smoked his transmission.

The fault is not with people but with BMW's jerk move of telling everyone the transmission fluid is "lifetime". ZF themselves tell you around 70-80K to change it. People of course dont know that and are just following BMW's crap advise which is nothing more then a marketing move.

Ravenol?


First, coulda sworn OP was referencing a "Vaico" ATF. Seems one of the never ending "its german so must be good for German Car" products we see. Is Vaico= Ravenol? Or is the turner item I was finding for 289 different?


https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...rvice-kit-8hp/





But importantly, we dont have zf6 nor zf8 complete specs, so how do you know that ravenol 'meets or exceeds'? Every tom dick and harry claims their ATF 'meets or exceeds'....but zf doesnt publish complete specs.....then you have the folks that think since ZF6 meets a Shell spec that any other ATF that meets that Shell spec therefore means it is equivalent to ZF6. (People that need to go back to 5th grade and study there Venn diagrams and word logic...) Yes, there are a TON of vendors and sites that claim fluids "meet the ZF spec". Doesnt make it true.



You want to mix fluids, go for it. It isnt a best practice. Simple as that. People do it. People run all sorts of fluids. Doesnt make it right.



FWIW: BMW stopped with the 'lifetime' claim on the x5 a few years ago. now 100k



Finally (robnitro) I did a 2x drain fill- but didnt wait a month in between, only a drive cycle to get it hot. why a month? Oh, on BITOG there does seem to be some scientific evidence around mercon and its equivalence... i havent spent the time researching, ZF fluid is cheap enough that it isnt worth it.

[Ron07x5]

Crazy they have no fill pipe or way to measure the level.
I used the way expensive BMW fluid and something I rigged up to plug into the the drain hole.

I measured the fluid that came out and sought to put as much back in. I was probably a quart less. A private bmw mechanic told me later about some complicated procedure of running the motor trans and it taking in the last bit.

The fluid was dark brown and clearly needed changing at 100K and 7 years on the X5. I have also changed the fluid in the differential, it was a pain for access I had to buy a special wrench I found online for $30.

I have 140K on the car no sign the transmission isn't working well so guess I did the job well enough. This is a job to be very careful about, if you end up with a trashed transmission that might cost more than the car is worth.

[blackhatal]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Could also be the plastic gear in the TC that always fails, not to bad to replace. It wont trigger OB2 codes but it will trigger BMW specific codes that readers like the Foxwell 510 and 520 can pickup with the BMW software loaded or the Protools app & adapter.

Make sure they reset your adaptations in both your tranny and TC. Put them on the spot and ask if they know the re-learn procedure for the ZF8HP transmission. (its pretty easy, 25% throttle let transmission shift through all gears, then coast down through all gears, repeat min 6 times, then repeat in manual mode 6 times. You need a long stretch of road with little traffic to do right. It will relearn if you dont have that type of road but will take longer.

Thanks for the tips! Didn't know about that procedure for the transmission. Thought it was all done through the computer.

How much oil does the TC take? I bought one qt of this BMW TC oil. Hope that'll be enough. Taking the car to the shop on Wednesday. Will let you know how it goes.

[blackhatal]

Originally Posted by ard

Ravenol?


First, coulda sworn OP was referencing a "Vaico" ATF. Seems one of the never ending "its german so must be good for German Car" products we see. Is Vaico= Ravenol? Or is the turner item I was finding for 289 different?


https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...rvice-kit-8hp/





But importantly, we dont have zf6 nor zf8 complete specs, so how do you know that ravenol 'meets or exceeds'? Every tom dick and harry claims their ATF 'meets or exceeds'....but zf doesnt publish complete specs.....then you have the folks that think since ZF6 meets a Shell spec that any other ATF that meets that Shell spec therefore means it is equivalent to ZF6. (People that need to go back to 5th grade and study there Venn diagrams and word logic...) Yes, there are a TON of vendors and sites that claim fluids "meet the ZF spec". Doesnt make it true.



You want to mix fluids, go for it. It isnt a best practice. Simple as that. People do it. People run all sorts of fluids. Doesnt make it right.



FWIW: BMW stopped with the 'lifetime' claim on the x5 a few years ago. now 100k



Finally (robnitro) I did a 2x drain fill- but didnt wait a month in between, only a drive cycle to get it hot. why a month? Oh, on BITOG there does seem to be some scientific evidence around mercon and its equivalence... i havent spent the time researching, ZF fluid is cheap enough that it isnt worth it.

Ard, you're right, the kit I ordered has the Vaico ATF 8HP. Tbh I didn't do any research into the trans fluid before ordering and just went by the ECS and Turnermotorsport recommendation (they both have the same kit). I'll look into it more now. Thanks for bringing it up. I found the right kit on CTSC and it's actually cheaper than the ECS one but comes out to roughly the same after shipping. Seriously considering returning the ECS kit and ordering from CTSC now. Just hate putting this off for another week

I haven't had any issues with the transmission so far. Still shifts as well as it did when I got the car at 54K miles. Just figured its a good time to change the fluid since I'm doing the TC as well. I did talk to the shop about the procedure. They know its not a transmission flush and that they have to replace the pan. It's a fairly reputable shop that only does BMWs.

[ard]

:thumbs up:

[blackhatal]

Wanted to give everybody an update on this. Picked up the car today and drove it back. All good news.

The transmission shifts much smoother. Before there was a noticeable jolt between second and third on both upshifts and downshifts. The downshifts are much smoother and I almost can't feel the upshifts now. Very pleased.

The transfer case fluid change also seemed to resolve the vibration/shudder that I was experiencing on tight turns. Smooth as butter now even on full lock turns under acceleration and uphill. This one is especially a relief, given all the stories of folks having to replace their whole transfer cases with similar symptoms.

I've had two other BMW indy shops tell me that I'm wasting my money changing the TC fluid and that I should just replace the whole Transfer Case, since it's a common failure on E70's. I am glad I didn't listen to that advice. TC fluid change being less than 10% of the cost of TC replacement should always be the first step in trying to resolve any drivetrain vibrations during turning (provided you don't have any specific codes indicating TC failure).

Thanks for the help everybody!