Next Can of Worms – Chargers: CTEK, NOCO or Other?

[Crowz]

Originally Posted by Attacking Mid

I've never run across this concept. Do you have any links to support this? I often use my 0.8 amp CTEK trickle charger to maintain/top-off my batteries. This would indicate I'm actually harming them. Just curious.

AM.

I may have the links somewhere but I wouldnt have a clue which ones have what covers that.


But let me rephrase what I said to say that if you leave a battery long term and I mean years without any use with a low amp charger it isnt strong enough to keep the battery from going bad. This mainly effects 0 draw conditions like shelf storage.


None of the ctek chargers I purchased lived long enough to qualify for long term personally.


At the same time none of the norco chargers I bought work anymore either but in their defense those were charging a solar setup as a cloudy day backup deal. Also one of the norco's was hit by lightning. I would say Ive had bad luck with them more than quality control issues for the most part. One arrived dead out of the box but was replaced via warranty.



Battery tender brand chargers dont seem to hold up that well lately either for me or other people I know. I have used them for years on things with a lifespan of 3 years average but of the 4 I bought within the last couple of years only one still works. The reviews I noticed on amazon seem to backup the idea that the quality has declined.


Most of cheaper trickle chargers I buy go on farm equipment that sits when outside seasonal usage and some sit for years on end.


A decent solar charger is another good option to consider if it has at least 2 amps max charge capacity. The reason they work well has to do with varying charge rates. The ones you stick on the dash dont put out enough to do anything most of the time but there some large sunshade models that do put out enough.


I'll look through my old stuff and see if I can find the study on the effects of constant low charge on batteries.


I sound like battery nut but it came about from laziness more than anything. To many batteries to have to change if I didnt keep them up and when the prices started climbing it got ridiculous cost wise.


The house solar setup was the final eye opener on it all. Everyone talks cost of panels, chargers etc. Thats nothing compared to the cost of batteries used for solar. The maintenance alone to keep them from running dry can be a real pain.

[Crowz]

One thing I recommend for anyone that stores their cars over the winter or in the case of my bmw's just wants to make sure they stay charged when not used for weeks at a time is the magcode connectors.


https://www.rosenberger.com/product/magcode/





Unfortunately they have gone from $50 a pair to $100 a pair now but I still think they are worth it.


All you have to do to connect the battery charger to the car with these is to place the connector close to the plug and it jumps to it via magnets. If you drive off and forget to unplug it then it just pulls off with no damage. Loose a few battery charger ends or cables and the cost of the magcode stuff isnt so bad. Also if the charger side end isnt attached to it then prongs have no power to them via a micro switch inside the plug. So they cant be shorted out.


Again expensive but to me worth it.


I use these on all of my bmw's.

[Attacking Mid]

Ahhhh, that makes more sense to me. Yes, constantly being in a state of partial discharge is a death knell for L-A batteries. I made a "pulser" and have tried my hand at resurrecting sulfated batteries with limited success. I've read of off-grid solar users claiming they can keep their systems powered using free used-up automotive batteries by resurrecting them using pulsing or sometimes chemical restoration techniques.

AM.

[josiahg52]

I'm a battery nut. Building, maintaining, tending, storing, using, providing engineering and technical support for 21 years. For tending, get a BatteryMINDer and carry on. They're simple and they work. The Odyssey branded chargers are fine for an actual charger. Or you can be like me, have these things and also thousands of dollars of additional equipment because you're crazy.

Do agree that pulse charging and desulfation is useful and beneficial.

[ajacks8]

I just picked up another MOCO Genius10. My question is, when I attached to red terminal and ground screw under hood...I'm last unit performed poorly (lights Al blinked, got hot, and did not maintain newer Odyssey perf battery). When moving direct to direct battery terminals - it performed flawlessly and has now for over a year (2004 4.8is). As I am now planning to hook up a new genius10 to my 05 4.4i (with a spare transmission riding in the hatch) I'm curious about under/hood attachment option. I once read that designated terminals should ALWAYS be used because the vehicle modules are expecting the charge to be sourced from there and a direct battery connection would circumvent the vehicle's ability to manage the voltage properly. Anyway, shuffling a loose trans in the hatch *sounds* fun...but I don't feel like I would be missing out if I avoided doing so! Any feedback of hooking up under-hood versus in the boot...I'd love to hear it!!! Thanks!

[Bdc101]

I have a 3 amp Battery Tender from Costco that I have been using for a few years. Just a few months ago I connected the permanent connection to the underhood terminals, and hung the connector out by the drivers-side windshield wiper, which seems perfectly sized. It can be tucked under the hood when driving and stays put, but is long enough to pull put to connect to the battery tender when I park it. This seems to be working great, but I also have a new battery and newish alternator. I have let it sit for two weeks at a time without issue.



If there's a reason you can't put it on the underhood terminals, I also would like to know.

[workingonit]

Originally Posted by Crowz

...But let me rephrase what I said to say that if you leave a battery long term and I mean years without any use with a low amp charger it isnt strong enough to keep the battery from going bad. This mainly effects 0 draw conditions like shelf storage.

...Battery tender brand chargers dont seem to hold up that well lately either for me or other people I know. I have used them for years on things with a lifespan of 3 years average but of the 4 I bought within the last couple of years only one still works. The reviews I noticed on amazon seem to backup the idea that the quality has declined....

I use several brands of battery charger/maintainers (plugged into a cigar lighter socket) in all my cars, trucks, and my homebuilt squareback camping trailer, to keep the batteries up during periods of idleness (ranging from two years, for the trailer, and normally up to 3 months each for the cars & trucks, at most). My wife's current daily driver, a low mileage new-to-her '14 Lexus ES350, never sits long enough to require trickle charging (also, she's been known to forget to unplug the charger, and drives away with it or the cord dragging behind), so it's seldom/never hooked up anymore. I also have four other chargers I can use, but infrequently.

At present, I've got batteries that are from 5 years old (in my X5 and the wife's Lexus), to 12 years old (the Optima Yellowtop AGM in my trailer). I haven't had a battery die in years since using the low amperage charger/maintainers, though I forgot to check the AGM a couple of times, and let it "die", but resurrected it twice.

I depend on the cheap charger/maintainers, and haven't had but one fail over a 12 year period (a Black & Decker BM2B), and I keep adding chargers to my collection. Let me explain:

from a thread on another website (https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=76241)
it depends on What kind of "plug-in charger" are you using? I use

• 1) a 1.25A Battery Tender for my BMW X5 it's probably 8 years old now,
• 2) two Amazon Basics Battery 2A Chargers both are 3 y.o. for both my Chevy and GMC pickups,
• 3) an Autozone Duralast 1.5A charger 9 y.o, for my HHR Panel,
• 4) a Battery Minder Plus, 1A, 12 y.o., for the AGM battery in my trailer,
• 5) and a Black & Decker Bm3B 2A 11 y.o. charger as a backup (or, for the riding mower, formerly used on my wife's Cobalt, while it was being worked on for 3 years)

All these use high-frequency pulsating power to desulphate and maintain batteries, and can be considered "smart", as they can be left in place for months at a time. Mine are plugged-in immediately at home, after I arrive there, and they keep my batteries charged full-time. They've also prolonged their lifespans, as the average lifetime for the Flooded Lead-Acid batteries has been 11 years, and the AGM trailer battery is now 13+ years (after two occasions where it had to be totally reconditioned, back-from-dead, before I started using the trickle chargers on everything...except my wife's daily driver, because she never remembers to unplug it). These charger-maintainers are good to keep a battery up to snuff, even to keep one from freezing in cold weather (Texas cold, that is), but will not resurrect a battery from the dead.

I have, however, resurrected my Optima Yellowtop AGM twice, Once from 7.3v, and the second time from 9.2v. I experimented on ways to do so, before I used the methodology outlined here (from this thread: https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?...55957&start=30)

Originally Posted by bdosborn

Here's what I found for conditioning AGM batteries on the Big RV forum.
This is the way I condition AGM batteries

3% A/H constant amperage (3 amps for a 100 amp hour battery)

Allow voltage to rise to no more than 15.2 volts. This will take time and you will see the voltage "spill" occasionally .2 or even .3 and re-climb. This is healthy.

You should monitor cell temperatures. A scanning IR reader is ideal for this. At the rate listed above cell temperatures should not rise more than 5 degrees F over ambient at 68F. But this is a total permitted rise not a sudden rise. And it applies to each individual cell.

I would love to see an amp hour meter used and limit the conditioning charge to 120% of regular amp hour capacity, regardless of the 3% - 15.2 Volt 5 degrees formula. No more than 120% regardless of other factorials. But you must start off with a battery that has been maintained at 14.4 volts for at least 48 hours.

1. Charge at 14.4 for 48 hours

2. Apply 3% amp hours constant current

3. Monitor cell temps and cease charging if cell gain is more than 5F @ 68F

4. Curtail charge at 15.2 Volts or 120% of A/H whichever comes first.

5. 7 Hours at 3 amps sounds about right for a 100 amp hour battery.

6. Make sure NONE of those cells gets too warm. This is critical.

This procedure (with some variations, necessary for my equiments' limitations) worked twice for me, using a combo of two chargers: a Schumacher XCS15 ("smart/automatic" charger/maintainer, 2-6-15A), and a Century wheel charger (fully manual,10-40-150A), but it was a prolonged effort.

I just bought a Solar/Clore Pro-Logix PL-2320 ("intelligent" battery charger/maintainer with "power supply mode", 2-10-20A) which would make battery resurrection much easier, as the "power supply mode" will maintain your settings as well as a fully manual charger (but with the added feature of providing clean power). And, if the battery has fallen below 10v, the Schumacher needed to be fooled with a secondary 12v (provided by a spare battery) so it would turn on, but the Pro-Logix has a special start button that turns it on with no battery power needed. It will be what I use from now on, if ever I need to bring a battery back to life.
https://xoutpost.com/1236822-post1.html

[ajacks8]

Originally Posted by workingonit

I use several brands of battery charger/maintainers (plugged into a cigar lighter socket) in all my cars, trucks, and my homebuilt squareback camping trailer, to keep the batteries up during periods of idleness (ranging from two years, for the trailer, and normally up to 3 months each for the cars & trucks, at most). My wife's current daily driver, a low mileage new-to-her '14 Lexus ES350, never sits long enough to require trickle charging (also, she's been known to forget to unplug the charger, and drives away with it or the cord dragging behind), so it's seldom/never hooked up anymore. I also have four other chargers I can use, but infrequently.

At present, I've got batteries that are from 5 years old (in my X5 and the wife's Lexus), to 12 years old (the Optima Yellowtop AGM in my trailer). I haven't had a battery die in years since using the low amperage charger/maintainers, though I forgot to check the AGM a couple of times, and let it "die", but resurrected it twice.

I depend on the cheap charger/maintainers, and haven't had but one fail over a 12 year period (a Black & Decker BM2B), and I keep adding chargers to my collection. Let me explain:

from a thread on another website (https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=76241)
it depends on What kind of "plug-in charger" are you using? I use

• 1) a 1.25A Battery Tender for my BMW X5 it's probably 8 years old now,
• 2) two Amazon Basics Battery 2A Chargers both are 3 y.o. for both my Chevy and GMC pickups,
• 3) an Autozone Duralast 1.5A charger 9 y.o, for my HHR Panel,
• 4) a Battery Minder Plus, 1A, 12 y.o., for the AGM battery in my trailer,
• 5) and a Black & Decker Bm3B 2A 11 y.o. charger as a backup (or, for the riding mower, formerly used on my wife's Cobalt, while it was being worked on for 3 years)

All these use high-frequency pulsating power to desulphate and maintain batteries, and can be considered "smart", as they can be left in place for months at a time. Mine are plugged-in immediately at home, after I arrive there, and they keep my batteries charged full-time. They've also prolonged their lifespans, as the average lifetime for the Flooded Lead-Acid batteries has been 11 years, and the AGM trailer battery is now 13+ years (after two occasions where it had to be totally reconditioned, back-from-dead, before I started using the trickle chargers on everything...except my wife's daily driver, because she never remembers to unplug it). These charger-maintainers are good to keep a battery up to snuff, even to keep one from freezing in cold weather (Texas cold, that is), but will not resurrect a battery from the dead.

I have, however, resurrected my Optima Yellowtop AGM twice, Once from 7.3v, and the second time from 9.2v. I experimented on ways to do so, before I used the methodology outlined here (from this thread: https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?...55957&start=30)



This procedure (with some variations, necessary for my equiments' limitations) worked twice for me, using a combo of two chargers: a Schumacher XCS15 ("smart/automatic" charger/maintainer, 2-6-15A), and a Century wheel charger (fully manual,10-40-150A), but it was a prolonged effort.

I just bought a Solar/Clore Pro-Logix PL-2320 ("intelligent" battery charger/maintainer with "power supply mode", 2-10-20A) which would make battery resurrection much easier, as the "power supply mode" will maintain your settings as well as a fully manual charger (but with the added feature of providing clean power). And, if the battery has fallen below 10v, the Schumacher needed to be fooled with a secondary 12v (provided by a spare battery) so it would turn on, but the Pro-Logix has a special start button that turns it on with no battery power needed. It will be what I use from now on, if ever I need to bring a battery back to life.
https://xoutpost.com/1236822-post1.html

Thank you for the robust history of charger options. I think I caught wind of you mentioning using the cigar lighter port as a connection point for your all your maintainers, is that accurate?


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[workingonit]

Originally Posted by ajacks8

Thank you for the robust history of charger options. I think I caught wind of you mentioning using the cigar lighter port as a connection point for your all your maintainers, is that accurate?

Yes, for the charger/maintainers only, though, since they only input 2 amps and under. But, when I use the other ones

• 1) 2-10 Amp Schumacher SE-1010 "dumb charger",
• 2) 2-10-15 Amp Schumacher XCS15 "smart charger",
• 3) 2-15-40-200 Amp Century Model 87423 "wheeled charger" (listed erroneously as 10-40-150 Amp in other threads), and
• 4) the new 2-10-20 Amp Clore/Solar Pro-Logix PL 2320 "Intelligent Charger/Maintainer/Power Supply"

I'll connect them to the jumping locations underhood on my vehicles (never directly to the batteries), except on the trailer's AGM battery (which would be charged away from the trailer).

[ajacks8]

Originally Posted by workingonit

Yes, for the charger/maintainers only, though, since they only input 2 amps and under. But, when I use the other ones

• 1) 2-10 Amp Schumacher SE-1010 "dumb charger",
• 2) 2-10-15 Amp Schumacher XCS15 "smart charger",
• 3) 2-15-40-200 Amp Century Model 87423 "wheeled charger" (listed erroneously as 10-40-150 Amp in other threads), and
• 4) the new 2-10-20 Amp Clore/Solar Pro-Logix PL 2320 "Intelligent Charger/Maintainer/Power Supply"

I'll connect them to the jumping locations underhood on my vehicles (never directly to the batteries), except on the trailer's AGM battery (which would be charged away from the trailer).
Attachment 84139

THANKS, Boss!


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