Goodbye E70 :(

[NINCHS]

Originally Posted by Kaefer

So... the superiors are not "American workers"? You're making an incredibly incongruent argument. You specifically blamed your quality problems on the car being built in America, when many of the top-quality, best-selling cars in the world are indeed built in America.

Let's face it, most new BMWs built here or anywhere else, have problems. The e53 was riddled with them, but they (BMW) eventually fixed them. By the way, VW has a buy-back program for the Touareg; MB seems to have FINALLY corrected ITS quality control issues after struggling with quality for the past 5 or 6 years... and none of that is related to American workers.

All I'm saying is, making a blanket statement that your problems can be traced back to "American workers" is unfair.

Good luck with the 335i... oh yeah, be on the lookout for transmission over-heating problems that have plagued that car... built in Germany, I believe?

Juan

yeah a faulty sensor is turning off 335's all across the country. But problems are always found on 1st year models.

[SpeedR]

Originally Posted by grover432

...My personal opinion is that the design is what drives the quality and fault rate...

...On the other hand, looking at the Japanese cars, the Japanese seem in general to be obsessed with quality where the American car manufacturers seem to be happy with "it's good enough - no one is complaining"....

...Another issue I see has to do with the culture of "entitlement" prevalent in the unions of American car manufacturers...

+1

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by Kaefer

Ahhhh... I love it when a plan comes together.

Relax, man... this is not about having the last word. You have your opinion; I have mine. It's OK to disagree.

Even if his opinion blows

I have had an issue or two with every BMW I have had. For instance my E46 M3 (where is that built again, oh Germany...and by who is it designed..yeah the M division) in the first 2,000 miles the weatherstripping fell off the car. A very common plague with E46's. Had those damn Germans just had better glue standards it would have all been fine

[330i2X5]

[Beemer4me]

I think South Africa ( Rosslyn ) at present is most well respected BMW factory...

The BMW manufacturing plant at Rosslyn in South Africa has an horrendous record for poor quality standards in the UK BMW dealer network. Here in the UK the Rosslyn plant complements the 3 series production in Germany by manufacturing the "Bread and Butter" variants namely the 316, 318 and 320 Petrol. BMW will not risk the QA standards of the South Africans building the higher end variants, i.e. 325, 330, 335, etc, etc, incl -; saloon, touring, coupe and convertible

Bottom Line IMHO : A LUXURY EUROPEAN CAR WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER QUALITY.

Sorry got to disagree as far as UK luxury car manufacturing is concerned! I was actively employed at Land Rover for 17 years and witnessed some very poor QA standards and vehicles. Just go and look at any Land Rover Websites to clarify my point. I will say the best years at Land Rover were the days when BMW held the reins. Since Ford took over quality and employee morale is rock bottom.

B4M

[chiefneil]

I think the issue is really 1st year production issues rather than where the vehicle is built. Most manufacturers seem to have problems with that, although the Japanese seem to have a better handle on it than most.

My buddy had a 1st year E36 that he had to lemon-law. He seriously had a 2" thick stack of repair paperwork to give to BMW's rep when they gave him static about a swap. My 3rd year E36, built in Germany, had several problems from the get-go. One entire headlight assembly kept popping out. It's no fun to get out of your brand-new BMW and have your date ask you why the headlights are hanging loose by the wires! The tranny shift lever also had a sheared-off bolt that kept it from going into park occasionally. Another fun issue on dates until service finally figured out what the problem was.

My E46, built in Germany, had 4 window regulators fail. Driving with a window all the way down when it's 115F outside really isn't fun. And the sunroof died the 2nd time I used it, and there were all sorts of odd clunking and thumping sounds that took years to iron out.

Anyway, my point is that anybody that buys the 1st year of any model, especially a German car, should expect more than their fair share of problems no matter where it's built. Oh, the 335i also had issues with overheating. Apparently BMW decided that non-SP models didn't need an oil cooler and so left it off if you didn't order the sport pack. Those wacky Germans!

[X5FX]

Originally Posted by 330i2X5

I didnt have a bad hit as I sold it privately and made only a $3k loss!!

I didnt have a "lemon" per se...the car was fine...but little quality issues , rattling, gaps at door panles...as I said and a few others had made me make this decision.....when you spend that kind of money AND on a BMW you dont expect these...

earlier you said:
"I have had rattles everywhere, gaps between door panels have been horribly off ( despite there being so called Quality Assurance after production ) and electronics which have a mind of their own...I refer to IDRIVE of course...e.g Nav freezes and whole system restarts itself on the move, backup camera works intermittently."

sorry, but this is not normal...sounds like you have a lemon to me. I feel sorry for the person you sold this too.
My E70 has zero rattles, and the electronics work as advertised. Have never had a freeze or restart since I bought it 4 months ago. And my backup camera works every time (just looks like crap, but that another issue).

[Eric Giles]

I am not here to bash the E70 per se, but relate a story and what my experience is in relation to this topic. I have a friend that works for a BMW dealer, and recently he had a conversation with the visiting BMW rep for the area. The rep mentioned visiting dealers in his area and finding E70's that just arrived at the dealerships with poor quality control-from small things such as incorrect badges installed to a couple that have arrived with running boards on one side and none on the other. He said the recent assembly line changes at the Spartanburg plant have caused some problems and it is showing.

Since I have a dealer's license, I routinely check out the Manheim auctions for prospective buys. At a recent Manheim auction up north, there were three E70's, all with under 3k miles, that were being sold. Each of them were yellow light, meaning there was a disclosure. And each one were manufacturer buybacks, or 'lemon law' vehicles. I did some checking and found a few more like this at other Manheim locations.

I am glad some people aren't having any issues with their E70's, but personally if I was in the market for one I would wait for an '08 or '09 so that most of the bugs are worked out.

[Coffeeman]

Sorry to hear of your problems with your E70. My E53 lease is up in two months, and I've agonized about what to replace it with. I like the E70, although I don't need the increased cargo space, or third row seats. I could also do without I-Drive.

When I priced an E70 replacement, msrp was north of $75k. Since I never carry any passengers, I also began to question my need for another SAV. While I was at my local BMW dealer, I walked over to the Mini showroom. Just for the hell of it, I test drove an '07 Cooper S. I was instantly hooked...reminded me of my 1974 2002tii. After the test drive, I ordered one.

Talk about apples & oranges...my wife thinks I've lost my mind, and time will tell if I have... but at half the price, and with a pretty big fun factor, it should be interesting.

[nupe10123]

Sorry to hear about your E70 issues but congrats on the new ride.

Initial model year issues seem to plague each car company. Early on when the E70 was being discussed I said I would avoid it til at least year 3 because of issues like you mentioned as well as two friends and a neighbor who all are experiencing similar problems.

The bad thing is if you want a good quality car, BMW is NOT the way to go, but if you want a fun car, then BMW all the way. Toyota, Honda etc are much better cars and cost a lot less, but you give up some of the fun factor.

I'm not sure if American built cars are better or worse than others in general, but I do know that Toyota quality has diminished (but still much better than BMW) as they have expanded manufacturing in the U.S. Japan built cars have less issues than U.S. built (same models). Someone told me that GM cars built in China have better quality than the US built ones. Now, this could be due to new facilities in China or to the workers themselves. But IF it is true that China built cars are better quality with the new factories, then the argument that the US built Toyota's are experiencing more problems due to new factories would not make since.

In any event, congrats on the new ride and I hope it goes better for you than the E70 did. For all the folks with the E70 and no problems, I hope you continue to have problem free driving.