When should I get my first oil change?

[art4.8i]

i got my first oil change at 11,400 miles as per service indicator. it is kinda low, but i drive very aggressively.

[motordavid]

[quote=np2004] ...Also on my 04 330ci I do it every 7500 miles after I did the first oil change can I keep that the same or should it be done sooner in the X5? I know there are always debates and arguments that doing oil changes it btwn intervals is not needed since BMW uses synthetic oil so its just a waste of money but wanted feedback from current owners.[/quote]

You do it on your 330, so do it on your E70, if you choose to...

You answered your own question; you must have needed another
couple pages of opins. ...

[Penguin]

Engine break-in and first oil change interval... lots of opinions, but little data.

When I bought my 2004 Z4 I took it as an opportunity to get some limited data and, on another board, posted the following message which some might find of interest:

OK, there has been an ongoing debate regarding the need for break-in. Some posters have said that with the closer tolerances of today's engines, break-in is obsolete and one show "drive it like you stole it" out of the box. (as an aside, I never could figure that saying out. If I stole a car I would drive very carefully to avoid the attention of the police). Anyway...

I wanted to answer the break-in question, so I took an oil sample at 2,000 miles and at 4,623 miles without changing the oil. I then compared the wear metals in the oil at these two test points to see if there was a big difference in wear between the first 2K miles and the second 2.6K miles.

The results?

Well, to make things comparable I did two things:

1) I had a sample of the original oil with 14 miles on it analyzed as a baseline sample.

2) Using the total PPM (Parts per million) of wear metals I computed the delta between 14 --> 2,000 --> 4,623 and adjusted it to a PPM per 1,000 miles to show a wear rate.

The results?

Wear Metal, PPM/1000miles First 2K miles, PPM/1000miles Second 2.6K miles:

Iron, 6, 1.2
Copper 5, 1.5
Aluminum 4, 0.4

Conclusions?

Fact: As expected, there is a lot more wear taking place in the engine during the first 2,000 miles than subsequent miles. Wear rate of iron was 5 times greater, Copper 3 times greater, and aluminum ten times greater (these are approximate as the precision and accuracy of the original numbers is 1 ppm, yielding about a 0.5 ppm accuracy in my computed numbers). Chromium, nickle, silver and tin wear rate was below the level of accuracy making a comparision meaningless.

Implication: The concept of a break-in proceedure which "wears-in" the parts to each other is not obsolete. This is a strong implication, not a fact, as the oil analysis cannot really determine what an "improper" break-in would do, e.g., someone might say that while there is more wear during the initial miles, the value of a break-in proceedure has not been proven. And it hasn't. Only an engine teardown of two engines treated differently would ddress this directly. However, it is clear that the initial wear on the engine is significantly greater and it would only make sense to operate the new engine with this in mind, i.e., continue to follow a break-in proceedure which promotes safe wear-in of the engine parts to each other.

None of these metals are present in levels which would indicate the oil is "no good" or needs to be replaced. However, considering the relative cost of the vehicle vs. the cost of an oil change, this data suggests to me that an oil change sometime soon after 2,000 miles would not be inappropriate.

[gipper]

WOW! Thank you for that very comprehensive explaination. I wish I had access to a lab that I can perform such an analysis. But then again, I would probably just spend my time mixing baking soda with vinager and giggling as it spilled out of it's container.

I think BMW is smart to include maintanence with their new cars, especially on leases. I just came out of a 3 year Toyota lease, and in 3 years I probably only changed the oil 3 times. I considered it an added cost of ownership. Most likely the engine won't blow up in 3 years if I don't change to oil. I felt like I was doing them a favor by changing to oil and I am very cheap!

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by gipper

I wish I had access to a lab that I can perform such an analysis. !

You can get oil analyzed for about $15-20 a sample quite easily. Most people use a company called Blackstone, but I just use the NAPA service, available at any NAPA store. You just buy part #4077 (I'm 95% sure that's the number). It comes in a box as if it were a filter, but the box contains a sample bottle. You then just mail in a sample of the oil and a few days later you get the results.

Here's the link:

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...l+Analysis+Kit

[Jeff SJ]

Originally Posted by Penguin

You can get oil analyzed for about $15-20 a sample quite easily. Most people use a company called Blackstone, but I just use the NAPA service, available at any NAPA store. You just buy part #4077 (I'm 95% sure that's the number). It comes in a box as if it were a filter, but the box contains a sample bottle. You then just mail in a sample of the oil and a few days later you get the results.

Here's the link:

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPage...l+Analysis+Kit

That's a great link, thanks for sharing! I've considered doing this myself on other cars.

My preference with all my modern BMWs is 1000-1200 break-in oil change. It would be wise to also consider the transmission/diff fluids as well. Not sure if you can get any dealers to do the latter, they are dead set on the "lifetime fill" which is ridiculous. Then I'd do the oil every 5K-7.5K depending on how you drive-mostly freeway, larger span. The tranny/diff every 30K is good. As already said, don't bother if leased but I'd do it if you plan to resell yourself. You might get a few more thousand for a car that you can show has been well maintained, especially if you find an enthusiast to buy it(easier said than done).

Has anyone had the dealerships change the diff and tranny fluids? What was your experiences with it? I know they look at be with a befuddled look when I ask for an oil change, I can't imagine what they'd do about the other fluids. Heck, the techs probably have never done it although I'd think it would be a no-brainer-probably no drain plug so would need to suck it out(not as good).

Oil changes are made difficult by a DIY's because of no dipsticks. Anyone have the oil capacities for a 4.8i(2007)?

Good luck

Jeff

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by Jeff SJ

My preference with all my modern BMWs is 1000-1200 break-in oil change. It would be wise to also consider the transmission/diff fluids as well. Not sure if you can get any dealers to do the latter, they are dead set on the "lifetime fill" which is ridiculous. Then I'd do the oil every 5K-7.5K depending on how you drive-mostly freeway, larger span. The tranny/diff every 30K is good. As already said, don't bother if leased but I'd do it if you plan to resell yourself.

I fully agree with the above.

[drod]

so, seems like it makes sense to change it right after break-in period...

question is... if that's correct why doesn't BMW recommend it? seems like their first recommended oil change is closer to 15k miles!!

that's a huge difference!!

[JCL]

Originally Posted by drod

so, seems like it makes sense to change it right after break-in period...

question is... if that's correct why doesn't BMW recommend it? seems like their first recommended oil change is closer to 15k miles!!

that's a huge difference!!

Because wear metals measured in parts per million (ie, dissolved) are not generally the reason you need to change your oil. At the extreme, yes, but there are other criteria more important than wear metals in practice.

Oil sampling using mass spectrometry or similar technology is very valuable for determining wear rates. Penguin's excellent post covers that. It doesn't mean that the oil is in need of being changed, though. The difference is between wear rate and total dissolved wear metals or dissolved solids.

A second analytic test will measure the Total Base Number (TBN). This is an indicator of the amount of additives left in the oil, when the TBN of original oil is compared to the TBN of the used oil. It is a simplistic view, but when the TBN drops sufficiently the additives are 'used up' and it is time to change the oil. TBN analysis is the usual trigger for oil change intervals (in addition to viscosity tests)

A third analytic test is called Large Particle Analysis. It looks for chunks of metal that are too large to show up in the first test, but which are actually damaging to your engine. They indicate failure in process. The tests I am familiar with use a microscope and camera, and count the number of visible particles in a certain area of the slide. You can have low dissolved solids and still have a high particle count. The oil filter takes out the large particles, but at the limit the filter becomes clogged, and goes into bypass mode effectively not filtering any longer.

Other tests measure water in the oil, viscosity, and so on.

Oil change intervals recommended by the manufacturer consider all of the above, not just the wear rate. They also take into account the sump capacity; a larger sump has more oil, and thus more capacity for dissolved solids.

If you do oil analysis, don't rely on a single test for much information. The value comes from trending, not absolute values. It is more valuable if you have a database showing wear metals for a large population of the same engine, whether by having a fleet or having access to manufacturer's data. When you trend the figures, you are looking for a spike. The interpretation done by the lab is as important as the absolute figures, as it can direct you to what is important or not.

With respect to the previous posts on early hour wear, I fully agree that there is more wear happening during the break-in period. We can consider that to be the first 2000 km, but many of us have noted from our own experiences that these engines continue to loosen up for something more like 8000 km. More power is noticed at that point, fuel economy improves to that point, and then it tends to level off. So, while I agree with Penguin's figures on accelerated wear during the first 2000 km or so, I think it carries on for some time longer.

I don't personally do oil changes after break-in (on these engines at least) but I see the logic. I don't get to 24,000 km on my first oil change as I don't put that much mileage on my vehicles, so after 12-18 months the first and all subsequent oil changes are often at 10,000 to 16,000 km (7000-10000 miles).

As always, you need to decide what is right for you.

[Penguin]

> there are other criteria more important than wear metals in practice. <

Agree, wear metals are more of an engine condition indicator than an oil life indicator.

> when the TBN drops sufficiently the additives are 'used up' and it is time to change the oil. <

I do not fully agree that TBN is the sole indicator for oil Life, as Blackstone typically implies. Viscosity change and additive depletion are also important, particularly since the level of some of these additives, such as Zinc Phosphate, have been significantly reduced in newer oils, in an effort to prolong catalytic convertor life.

> I think it carries on for some time longer. <

I also agree with this. My BMW motorcycle engine did not fully seat the rings and quit using oil until around 15,000 miles, after a prolonged high-speed run in Texas. But I believe the wear rate curve from new to "equilibrium" is closer to an exponential decay curve than a straight line, e.g., the first 500-1000 miles are the most critical for break-in.

I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time, never having sold one with less than 100,000 miles on it. As a result, I always do an early first oil change as the logic says (to me) that there is a good probability it is wise, and there is no downside (other than the cost of a single oil change) to do the first change early.

There are valid cases to be made for both sides, but I tend to fall on the "better safe than sorry" side, and do oil changes more often than BMW recommends, e.g., a lot of Toyota owners who had their sludge-prone engines fail would have been wise to change the oil more often than Toyota recommended.