E70 3.0d/3.0sd Drivetrain differences

TOMMO · #1 01-07-2009, 12:09 PM

Howdy All,

Since this is my first post of the new year.... may you all live strong and prosper in 2009!

The thing is.... i am considering adding a tuning box to my 3.0d but i am slightly apprehensive with regards to the demands on the transmission etc etc... We aren't talking a massive ammount, this varies from company to company but i'm not going for the biggest available anyhow.

I was wondering if there are any significant differences between the 3.0d/sd cars? If the drivetrain is the same.... then i shouldn't have any problems as the quoted figures are below the sd output anyway. Do share please.

And if anyone in the UK has any experience with diesel tuning companies or can reccomend someone or something that would be appreciated greatly.

Cheers all!

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DBC · #2 01-07-2009, 12:21 PM

As an sd owner i know the brakles are uprated for the sd. But as for the ZF gearbox, i am not sure but if you look at the spec sheet they have the same ratios so i would think they would be the same torque rating. I cannot see even BMW having 2 gearboxes with the same ratios but differing torque rating. So the 280 BHP that most reputable tuners take the d up to would be safe.

TOMMO · #3 01-07-2009, 12:43 PM

Thank you. I was kinda thinking along the same lines as your post. I also couldn't see BMW developing a different gearbox etc, especially after all the R&D that went into the E70 in the first place. I will start looking more extensively into the tuning boxes, which seem the most convenient way of an upgrade without invalidating the warranty as they are a 15 minute job. Thanks again for you help.

ekelly · #4 01-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOMMO

Howdy All,

Since this is my first post of the new year.... may you all live strong and prosper in 2009!

The thing is.... i am considering adding a tuning box to my 3.0d but i am slightly apprehensive with regards to the demands on the transmission etc etc... We aren't talking a massive ammount, this varies from company to company but i'm not going for the biggest available anyhow.

I was wondering if there are any significant differences between the 3.0d/sd cars? If the drivetrain is the same.... then i shouldn't have any problems as the quoted figures are below the sd output anyway. Do share please.

And if anyone in the UK has any experience with diesel tuning companies or can reccomend someone or something that would be appreciated greatly.

Cheers all!

Hi Tommo

This is a fairly well discussed topic in other forums for the 535d and 335d.
I haven’t driven an E70 3.0d so I can’t really compare. But in comparison to an E53 3.0d (218hp) the transmission in the E70 3.0sd is very “smooth”. What I mean is when you put your foot down (not kick down) the E70 changes up through the gears with ease and no fuss which I find aids the luxury factor of the E70. Obviously this because of the Twin Turbo set up. The 3.0d has this huge turbo kick when it comes into action but tapers off when nearing the red line which is where the 3.0sd keep going. From the offset the there is a power difference but its how the torque is spread throughout the revs which I think is important.

At 1700rpm the 3.0d has ~480Nm and the 3.0sd has ~570Nm of torque
At 2000rpm both have their maximum torque (3.0d: 520Nm, 3.0sd: 580Nm
At 4000rpm the 3.0d has ~380Nm and 3.0sd has ~480Nm of torque

The most impressive thing is that torque available in the 3.0sd remains flat until 4200rpm which is where the 3.0d runs out of breath. Gear ratios are different; in particular it is the final gears which are better on the 3.0sd.
There are two “reputable” tuners that I know of DMS and E-Maps which can take the 3.0d up to about a maximum of 290hp & 620Nm which would make it marginally better in performance to the 3.0sd. Although you mention that you are not going for the biggest gain, I’ve seen 270hp & 600Nm. Mind you I would not count on them (DMS or E-Maps) fulfilling the new warranty they issue you when have the E70 is mapped, providing things do not go bad that is.

In relation to the transmission both are “labelled” the same i.e. ZF6HP26. However from my understanding the 3.0d has the ZF6HP26 which can handle up to a maximum of 600Nm. The 3.0sd has the ZF6HP26 TU (technical update) which corresponds to ZF6HP28 which is capable of 700Nm. The life expectancy of the engine will decrease somewhat when it is mapped to a higher setting. If you don’t plan to dive it anymore than 100,000 miles you should have no immediate problems.

Hope this might help in your decision.

Kind Regards
ekelly

TOMMO · #5 01-08-2009, 05:55 PM

Hi eKelly,

Thank you for your comprehensive mail and i found your points very helpfull. Interesting comparisons regarding the torque figures at various points in the rev range. Don't get me wrong the 3.0d is still smooth and during every day use the cars power is more than ample. I find that the car could do with more umph in the later gears when i stretch it's legs. I was reluctant to remap for the obvious warranty issues and also the cost. I only plan to keep the car for another 12 months or so when i will almost certainly go the way of sd. I will see what i can discover regarding the plug and play boxes on the other forums and go with the feed back consensus. Cheers again for your input. Catch you around.

best regards

Fastbuck · #6 01-09-2009, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOMMO

Hi eKelly,
I will see what i can discover regarding the plug and play boxes on the other forums and go with the feed back consensus. Cheers again for your input. Catch you around.

I purchased a "plug and pray" unit from eBay for £65 and I've been very happy with it.

Naish · #7 01-09-2009, 10:22 AM

It is obvious that a remap or box will stress the entire car more

But when a standard car is driven to the limit it is also more stressed than when driven quietly...

Apart from that I can only advise you NOT to use an plug an play box... The problem with these boxes is that it alters the information received from different sensors and changes the feedback to the engine computer. This is however a very bad thing for the engine.
A remap of the engine computer is just altering the scheme and getting more out of the engine, but based on the CORRECT information.

I'm personally considering a tune by AutoTuneHeinz from BE witch puts the 3.0d to 280 a 285 bhp and 620 Nm. Plus they will put the car on a test bank to determine the initial figures and do a re-run after upgrade to get the final figures!
As a part of warranty you just don't mention it to your dealer and in case they reset and reload the car, you get a free new tune at that provider... After that you ask to your dealer what they did to your car and not to do it again (say that it handled totally different and not as good as before) without mentioning the tune.

southwold · #8 12-29-2009, 03:08 AM

Since we are talking about tunning, I have been wondering about the company Chip tunning from Germany... Does any one here know of their reputation and claims on the power improvment of 28% for the E70 3.0d

Kyratz · #9 04-25-2010, 09:26 PM

i discovered a company called DMS automotive, UK based not german, claim a 20% improvement and back it up with a warranty - anyone got any experience with this company?

x5TT · #10 04-25-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyratz

i discovered a company called DMS automotive, UK based not german, claim a 20% improvement and back it up with a warranty - anyone got any experience with this company?

improvement wont be that much, but i'm still happy with my X after DMS re-map

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