Help me decide, question for those who switched from 19" to staggered 20" setup

[Zoich]

My sales guy talked me out of two thing when I ordered my vehicle:
Don't order the 20" wheels,
Don't order the running board.

His reasoning - you won't be able to control your car in the snow (I live in the midwest), and when snow/ice accumulate on your running board, you won't be able to open your door. Also your pant leg would get dirty as your drag your pants on the dirty running board.

My former car was an e39 6 cylinder 5 series. When I had std 16 wheels with Michelin MXV engergy all season tires on it, even when it snowed (up to 2"), i was pretty confident driving the rear-wheel drive car. The handling, the traction was fine. The braking was comproised but predictable. But when I changed to 18" staggered setup. If it snowed even 1/2 inch, I barely had tranction, braking was non controlable, and I wasn't confident enough to even go fast to observe the handling. So what I'm trying to say is, I trusted what my saleman was telling me.

But a local guy is selling his 20" (1500 miles on the tires) thus perked up my interest. I could always use my 19s, style 212 with Michelin all season tires in the snow.

Here is where you can help, by sharing your experience and wisdom, here are my questions:

1) For those you who made the switch, besides the aggressive look -- what did you gain as far as performancewise?

2) Wouldn't bigger wheels with bigger tires contribute to more unsprung weight? -- therefore more stress on the suspension components? -- more stress on the braking system? Longer stopping distance (though different tires would also contribute to stopping distances)

3) Or are the style 214 20" actually lighter wheels vs the 212 19"? (for example, the M5 18" wheels were actually lighter at 19 lb minus the tire)

4) The staggerd setup will induce more understeer -- was that very signficant after you made the switch? how much heavier did the steering get? I can always "feel" the road through my steering wheel in a BMW, how much of that dynamic has changed once you made the switch?

5) lastly, the person selling the style 214's (no blemishes) with the 1500 mile tires wants $2700 for them -- is this fair? what did you pay if you didn't buy everything brand new?

6) Obviously if I make the switch, I will need to change out the arches, then of course I would like to add the running board -- do you guys really get your pant leg dirty? Did the snow/ice really stopped your door from opening? In a normal day, I go from garage to garge from home to work, so it's a non-issue 95% of the time. I am only 5'6" and I have noticed I drag my trailing pant leg already as i step/slide into the vehicle.

7) lastly, is this all cosmetic? don't get me wrong, I want a sharp looking car... especially those that have been shown from Dubai -- why they can get their X5 so specialized and we can't do it here...

I know it's a lot of question, but this would really help me decide. (and convince my wife!)

[HaroldC]

Your salesman is incorrect. Performance in snow and ice is dependent on the tires, not the size of the wheels. The reason why your e39 was terrible in the snow with the new 18" wheels was that they were probably high performance tires, while your OEM 16" tires were All-Seasons. On my M3, I had 19" snow tires. I can drive anywhere in the snow and am only limited by the amount of snow because my car is so low.

Yes, a staggered setup will induce understeer more than a square setup. But how hard are you expecting to push your X5? Regardless of tires and wheels, the X5 is a heavy and tall vehicle and I wouldn't come close to expecting it to handle neutrally. That being said, with my 20" tires and Active suspension, it handles very very well. Not on par with the M3, but I also wouldn't expect it to either.

[Zoich]

Originally Posted by HaroldC

Your salesman is incorrect. Performance in snow and ice is dependent on the tires, not the size of the wheels. The reason why your e39 was terrible in the snow with the new 18" wheels was that they were probably high performance tires, while your OEM 16" tires were All-Seasons. On my M3, I had 19" snow tires. I can drive anywhere in the snow and am only limited by the amount of snow because my car is so low.

Yes, a staggered setup will induce understeer more than a square setup. But how hard are you expecting to push your X5? Regardless of tires and wheels, the X5 is a heavy and tall vehicle and I wouldn't come close to expecting it to handle neutrally. That being said, with my 20" tires and Active suspension, it handles very very well. Not on par with the M3, but I also wouldn't expect it to either.

You're correct, the grooves on my e39 18in tires were so wide, when snow gets packed in, it's like I am on 4 snowboards. -- Which is what I am seeing on the Dunlop 20's summer tires only -- what are you running during winter? in the snow? I do plan to put the 19's back on during winter. - I am told you'd want skinny and taller profile tires for winter driving.

Can someone share the difference driving the 19 vs. 20? Is it because the car is so heavy, that I wouldn't feel a difference? in handling? in braking? That sprung weight and unspring weight has no impact?

[HaroldC]

It's not only the tread pattern, but the actual rubber compound is different for winter tires vs summer tires. Winter tires have a compound that is still pliable in the cold whereas summer tires become hard as a rock below 40 F.

I just don't drive the car much when it snows. Otherwise I would have bought a second set of wheels and tires just for the winter. I get by ok with the summer tires in the winter, I just know not to push the car too much.

There isn't going be a significant difference between the unsprung weight of the 19"s and 20"s. What you'll mostly feel is the difference between the sidewalls of the 19 and 20.

[jpl]

your salesman was honnest and correct in my honnest opinion
and with years in real snow....not the odd storm watched on TV

I had 21 inc. which I traded quickly for 18 inc with real winter, not the junk all-season, unless you want to hit a curb or a cement piece somewhere along the road

with all-season, the tough coumpound will not stop, it will slide...and fill up rapidely, like was said before.....

my experience, the wider the tire, the less apropriate for real winter
a 21 or 22 is good for sporty driving in the summer, and not for the show,,,,and also stinks in
rough roads, as many found out with the cracked rims.....not meant for anything other than good to excellent driving condition

In Quebec we face all those very difficult conditions, unfortunaletly, and it makes you come back to the basis very rapidly.....not much theory, just practical decision

[Craig]

I have the 19" wheels on mine. I couldn't order the 20" wheels on the diesel. My neighbor has 20" wheels on their car and all four tires are bald with only 13,500 miles on their X5. Don't get rid of your other wheels, you will need them in the snow.

Craig

[rh71]

I have repeated this a few times... and this is just to give you another option. I went from 19s to 20s (aftermarket)... the reason your dealer said to avoid those 20" upgrades is because they are summer tires. You didn't mention if you have a 3.0 or 4.8 but I'm guessing the latter since the upgrade option was available to you at the dealer (not available for the 3.0 in the books). He was looking out for your interests because of the snow and I agree with him. If I had the option, I wouldn't want the summer-only tires, but would take the 214s of course - lots of us have gone aftermarket.

If you're going to push the vehicle all the time, you may have valid concerns with the larger wheels, but day-to-day driving, going from 19s to 20s, you don't notice much of a difference. The other thing I preach is this... unless you're driving around in snow ALL THE TIME, get all-seasons and stop worrying about changing tires twice a year or even having to store the extra set. I have now survived 2 winters and driven in a good handful of snowstorms with the staggered 20s on Toyo Proxes all-seasons with zero problems. I sold my 19s to someone who had the summer-only 20s, and I haven't looked back.

If you're going for aesthetics, do everything you can to stick with 20s year-round. 18s or 19s may be effective but they do absolutely no justice to the X5. All-seasons are not bad unless you're using the X5 as a race car (pushing its limits) or snowmobile (same thing). The summer tires bald easy as well... for obvious reasons. The all-seasons are FINE for day-to-day including snow here and there - it looks like you are familiar with all-season performance already anyway. I stare at the M3 across the street that has to stay home on days like yesterday (and days to come) while I drive my X5 everyday - it's funny, they didn't even bother clearing the snow off yet.

BTW, brand new from the dealer I think 214 summers run near $3400, just to give you an idea. If you're asking about value, I wouldn't pay $2700 for used, summer-only tires (even if that's what they go for). Again, just to give you another option, you can do replica 214s and all-seasons for $2k brand new, but I assume you'll need RFTs as you have 3rd row. Oh and skip the running boards - it's hard enough getting out as it is without the boards if you're shorter. My 2c.

[Zoich]

Originally Posted by rh71

If you're going for aesthetics, do everything you can to stick with 20s year-round. 18s or 19s may be effective but they do absolutely no justice to the X5. All-seasons are not bad unless you're using the X5 as a race car (pushing its limits) or snowmobile (same thing). The summer tires bald easy as well... for obvious reasons. The all-seasons are FINE for day-to-day including snow here and there - it looks like you are familiar with all-season performance already anyway. I stare at the M3 across the street that has to stay home on days like yesterday (and days to come) while I drive my X5 everyday - it's funny, they didn't even bother clearing the snow off yet.

BTW, brand new from the dealer I think 214 summers run near $3400, just to give you an idea. If you're asking about value, I wouldn't pay $2700 for used, summer-only tires (even if that's what they go for). Again, just to give you another option, you can do replica 214s and all-seasons for $2k brand new, but I assume you'll need RFTs as you have 3rd row. Oh and skip the running boards - it's hard enough getting out as it is without the boards if you're shorter. My 2c.

Thank you for your input! Yes, it's for aesthetics reason... Yes, it's a 4.8. There is something to be said about looking from the back of the car and seeing those very very wide shoes. If I make the change, I will stick with the the used tires until they get bald then go with the RFT Bridgestones all-seasons. I need RFT becasue of the 3rd row. I thought it was nice to have at the time -- in case we're in a pinch, can alwasy haul a couple of more people -- plus using this car as a baby mobile. Another thought did cross my mind that I could haul one of the 19's as my spare in the back with a jack if i were to go Non-RFT. Really the only aggressive time I'll push the car is my 7 mile commute to work on the highway. On the weekends we generally take my wife's Audi since I'm averaging 13.5 miles to the gallon. That's one thing I hate, going to gas station on a weekly basis -- it's only a 21 gallon tank? my old e39 had a 19 gallon tank.

If I am not doing the running board, I may not even bother with the wheel arches that flare out... that shouldn't rub against the wide tires right?