Consumer Reports

X5_ATLAST · #1 12-22-2009, 09:50 PM

Friends and Colleagues of mine who own X5 are always happy with their vehicles and they say they are reliable except for little problem here and there. Yet I don't understand why Consumer Reports magazine always gives crappy report about X5. Did anybody notice ?

JCL · #2 12-23-2009, 01:46 AM

I don't read Consumer Reports, but I do follow various quality surveys (JD Power, etc). BMW isn't near the top of most lists. In my case, I accepted the mid-pack reliability results because other things about the car were positive (driving experience, handling, etc). Everything is a trade off in life.

I think there are likely few BMW owners who believe that BMW initial product quality is class leading. And yet at the same time, BMW sales volumes have grown fairly well.

z2g · #3 12-23-2009, 02:23 AM

What I found odd about CR reliability reports on the X5 is that only one category was below avg or poor on the 2009 X5 (the fuel system). Two categories were average and the rest was good or better. Yet, the 2009 X5 overall reliability was a tad below average.

However, other cars/suv's that had good overall reliability ratings would often have many more specific major areas that were rated below average or poor (2 or 3 black marks).

Redridge · #4 12-23-2009, 08:34 AM

CR is good for vacuum cleaners and vcr's......not automobiles.

FunfDreisig · #5 12-23-2009, 09:23 AM

A bad rep is hard to lose, bro.

CR is not the mag I used to tell me about the E70's handing, performance etc. But is it the mag I used to tell me about reliability. The CR reliability ratings are based on SURVEYS of auto owners. It is the owners themselves that are telling the tale, not the CR appliance testers.

The E70s seem to be more reliable than the E53s but still not in the top ratings. You only have to look at the number of people reporting that they had to take there vehicle into the dealer within the first few thousand miles, to know you are reading a BMW forum, not Lexus.

Take just the subset of the X5 35d. We already know of one catastrophic engine failure, where BMW probably didin't install one of the rod bolts. Four 35ds have had the exact same Air Temp Sensor replaced. One is having 2 of the fuel injectors and one of the exhaust fluid tanks replaced. Another has had the other exhaust fluid tank replaced....

As you probably know I bought a 35d anyway. I'm just keeping a very watchful eye on the reliability issues. Hence the failed Air Temp Sensor thread, etc.

Funf Dreisig

X5_ATLAST · #6 12-23-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunfDreisig

A bad rep is hard to lose, bro.

CR is not the mag I used to tell me about the E70's handing, performance etc. But is it the mag I used to tell me about reliability. The CR reliability ratings are based on SURVEYS of auto owners. It is the owners themselves that are telling the tale, not the CR appliance testers.

The E70s seem to be more reliable than the E53s but still not in the top ratings. You only have to look at the number of people reporting that they had to take there vehicle into the dealer within the first few thousand miles, to know you are reading a BMW forum, not Lexus.

Take just the subset of the X5 35d. We already know of one catastrophic engine failure, where BMW probably didin't install one of the rod bolts. Four 35ds have had the exact same Air Temp Sensor replaced. One is having 2 of the fuel injectors and one of the exhaust fluid tanks replaced. Another has had the other exhaust fluid tank replaced....

As you probably know I bought a 35d anyway. I'm just keeping a very watchful eye on the reliability issues. Hence the failed Air Temp Sensor thread, etc.

Funf Dreisig

I wouldn't judge based on the forum. Most people are here while they are making purchase decisions and as soon as they get the vehicle they disappear. That leads us to see posts with problems. So most of the posts we see here are complaints rather commends. I agree to the fact that BMWs are average when it comes to reliability. That been said, I have less (may be no) problems with 328 than I had with my 2002 TL.

dbox · #7 12-23-2009, 10:44 AM

I've had a 525i, 4.4X5, 2 M3's, M5, and my current 4.8 and they've all been great.

FunfDreisig · #8 12-23-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5_ATLAST

I wouldn't judge based on the forum. Most people are here while they are making purchase decisions and as soon as they get the vehicle they disappear. That leads us to see posts with problems. So most of the posts we see here are complaints rather commends.....

Sorry.... that old saw won't cut.

My judgment is not based on percentages of complaints vs commends. It is based on absolute numbers of problems reported. And I am reducing even these, by only considering problems that immobilized the vehicle or at a minimum set the CEL and threw a DTC code that required a trip to the dealer to repair.

IMO even if we are reading about every problem with every E70, this is not an enviable reliability record.

Funf Dreisig

JCL · #9 12-23-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5_ATLAST

I wouldn't judge based on the forum. Most people are here while they are making purchase decisions and as soon as they get the vehicle they disappear. That leads us to see posts with problems.

While there is some basis for your comment, many of us have been here for years, through multiple BMW vehicles. See Wagner's post, above, and check post counts for various regular posters. Long term posters also tend to have had a variety of different vehicles and can contrast BMW issues with other manufacturers.

StanF18 · #10 12-23-2009, 01:07 PM

This is nothing new. I've posted CR ratings here a while back. I think CR is an excellent publication, whether it's vaccum cleaners or vehicles. Unlike other ratings and surveys, they do not accept advertising, nor do they allow their articles and reviews to be used in advertising. So they are more objective.

Having a few friends and colleagues who rave about their X5s reliability is a far cry from surveys of thousands of owners. When one looks objectively at the data from year to year the way CR does, it's pretty clear that BMW as a brand has "average" reliability, much lower than Honda and Toyota. Of course, there are always exceptions. Toyota has had a couple of reliability "duds" over the years. As has Honda.

But by and large, if I was taking bets on which will last longer for a non-enthusiast consumer before encountering major problems: a 2010 Honda Accord V6 or a 2010 BMW X5 6-cyl?? My money is squarely on the Accord. Again, we are assuming the bare minimum recommended maintenance, not the TLC that most of us Forum guys are pouring onto our X5s. In our case, all bets are off.

I think CR is great for an overall feel of what to stay away from (e.g. the Range Rover has horrible year-to-year reliability, ditto for Suzuki). At the same time, CR ratings and impressions are geared towards the general American public and not towards auto enthusiasts specifically. So they will obviously not dissect the nitty-gritty and will not get into extensive discussions about driving dynamics, 1/4-mile times, and steering input the way Car and Driver or Motor Trend do. They are more concerned about having a reliable ride from point A to point B for the average non-enthusiast soccer mom. So they will never steer me from buying another BMW, regardless of who finishes ahead in some reliability categories.