Engine temperature

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by ABMW

When was the last time you saw a modern car overheat or a vehicle loose oil pressure? (exclude Fords and GM products)

That's not why people want a temperature gauge. People want to know when the vehicle is at operating temperature.

As for uncluttering things, that's not an issue either. BMW could easily add it to the idrive under the vehicle information section where the TPM monitor, engine oil level, etc. is. Coolant temperature data is readily available on the OBD-II buss.

[ABMW]

Originally Posted by Penguin

That's not why people want a temperature gauge. People want to know when the vehicle is at operating temperature.

As for uncluttering things, that's not an issue either. BMW could easily add it to the idrive under the vehicle information section where the TPM monitor, engine oil level, etc. is. Coolant temperature data is readily available on the OBD-II buss.

You're assuming modern engines require a period of warming before they're ready to be driven off.

There are many out there that disagree with you. Google "do car engines need to be warmed."

I won't get into the debate, but it's obvious by googling that the debate was settled some time ago.

[motordavid]

Originally Posted by ABMW

There's lots of talk about the removal of temp and oil pressure gauges throughout the auto industry.

When was the last time you saw a modern car overheat or a vehicle loose oil pressure? (exclude Fords and GM products)

The human factor and the decluttering of automobiles is being taken into consideration and instrument panels are being simplified across the board.

The exact same thing is taking place within the aviation industry , and gauges that have been standard for 60-years are now being removed or replaced with digital gauges that must be searched for through menus or are no longer present, at all.

IDrive was an attempt at simplifying the driving experience. Obviously it was a failure, and it took many years to get it right. But in it's current state, it's very "close" to where it should be.

We'll slowly start to see the removal of such gauges from all automobiles, as other indicators and instruments are added.

Though, their removal does not at all signify the designers wish for the cars to loose their sporting appeal.

Rather, quite the contrary. It's one less thing the driver must focus on, and it can be argued that drivers can actually drive quicker and safer as a result.

Sure it's nice to see a temp. gauge, for nostalgia,but a warning light will perform the same function, if required.

Trust me, the gauges were not removed at a whim. BMW, along with every other company that builds machines which interface with humans, hires psychologists who work together with engineers to create a safe and modern interface.

I'm sure there is an exact reason as to why the temp. gauge was removed, and my bet is the answer rests somewhere along the lines of what I've written above.

Interesting set of opins, ABMW; here are mine:

-other than a water pump failure, I agree cars seldom lose oil pressure or overheat, regardless of brand. Some/many X owners here however, have suffered the oil separator/CV problem, though gauges would not necessarily have helped indicate that imminent fault.

-"decluttering"?! I guess NAV & NAV-TV, Ipod, laptops in the front seat, I-Drive, et al, are helpful in "decluttering" that pesky informative instrument panel.

-airplanes ain't cars...the several private plans I've been in are flown by very careful, attentive, serious pilots; I know few drivers like that.

-I guess without those extra gauges, eg oil pressure, temp, et al, I can "focus" better on my NAV or TV or cell phone/texting, or...

-I agree BMW did not remove the gauges on a whim; it was to save money and not clutter up Biff&Buffy's driving experience. I seriously doubt any psychologists were consulted.

Not really an issue with me, in terms of disappearing gauges, but it does seem odd and, cheap, imo.

I really like the DIC on my '02 Vette: I can scroll through all data, by touch, and see every "reading" one would care to view, in addition to the best HUD in the industry. My 50Cts.
GL,mD

[Noodle555]

Originally Posted by ABMW

You're assuming modern engines require a period of warming before they're ready to be driven off.

There are many out there that disagree with you. Google "do car engines need to be warmed."

I won't get into the debate, but it's obvious by googling that the debate was settled some time ago.

Warming of engines before driving off and really getting on the throttle pre-operating temperature are different matters. Knowing when you are at the correct temperature to open up the throttle is very important to limit damage. There are many threads on this at M3forum. That's why the M cars have engine temp gauge, oil temp gauge and lights signifying maximum RMPs at certain temperatures. This philosophy applies to all engines.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by ABMW

You're assuming modern engines require a period of warming before they're ready to be driven off.

There are many out there that disagree with you. Google "do car engines need to be warmed."

I won't get into the debate, but it's obvious by googling that the debate was settled some time ago.

As a Mechanical Engineer who has worked as a Product Planner at a major auto company in the past, has worked at a manufacturer of large jet engines, and also worked with motorcycles and cars for 40 years, I appreciate your googling skills.

But as much googling as you might do, you will not convince me one should use their engine at WOT immediately after starting when it is zero degrees outside. Engines do require a warm-up period before being operated at high-RPM and/or high load. A temperature gauge shows you when the engine is at normal operating temperature.

Note that warm-up, does NOT mean idling at a standstill.


P.S. A working temperature gauge also provides an indication of thermostat failure, a quite common problem. Without the temperature gauge, such a problem will go undiagnosed until the thermostat failure becomes dramatic.

P.P.S. If you park your diesel outside overnight, start it in the morning when the temperature is 5 degrees, drive it a mile to the Interstate, and then start driving on the interstate, do you know how long it takes for the engine to warm-up? I do, as I have been logging coolant temperature vs. time data via the OBD-II port over the past few thousand miles. Care to take a guess?

[kbp33]

Originally Posted by Penguin

P.P.S. If you park your diesel outside overnight, start it in the morning when the temperature is 5 degrees, drive it a mile to the Interstate, and then start driving on the interstate, do you know how long it takes for the engine to warm-up? I do, as I have been logging coolant temperature vs. time data via the OBD-II port over the past few thousand miles. Care to take a guess?

Am interested in knowing the answer as I do the samething almost everyday. Thanks.

[Noodle555]

Originally Posted by Penguin

P.P.S. If you park your diesel outside overnight, start it in the morning when the temperature is 5 degrees, drive it a mile to the Interstate, and then start driving on the interstate, do you know how long it takes for the engine to warm-up? I do, as I have been logging coolant temperature vs. time data via the OBD-II port over the past few thousand miles. Care to take a guess?

I guess "2 minutes" at regular highway speeds. Please enlighten us.

[ard]

It annoys me greatly...

The X6 has the temp display, BTW. I'd like to replace mine.

In the manual on page 241 they provide instructions on bringing the engine to "operating temp"... "an uninterrupted drive of 6miles/10km"


In the E39M5, if the thermostat fails, the engine runs cool. No idiot lights, but the car is stuck in open loop mode due to the low temp, and will run very rich... emissions are up and power is down. The owner that notes his engine temp has been running cool can then think "say, maybe I need a new thermostat"... without temp gauges, you will not know. There are real and valid reasons for this information. Although I will admit not within the first 30 month lease BMW seems to be targeting as their prime demographic.

A

[gokudo_90]

My dealer told me as soon as the rpm goes down i can drive but need to wait 3 minutes till i use higher rpm

[Noodle555]

The courtesy 2010 X3 I drove recently also has a temp gauge