CPO Question re: certifying a BMW that was in a crash

[Bora20]

My X3 has a $2900 collision on it and it is CPO. $2900 doesn't go very far these days after labour and taxes, so it is pretty insignificant.

CPO basically gives you extended warranty and makes sure certain items are up to the level BMW would want; good tires, good wheels, no missing parts, etc.

[desrste]

I appreciate the feedback and certainly agree and understand what the CPO is and is not.

I need to clarify my question I guess... Under the CPO Checklist there is a box that must be checked off titled "Carfax". This requires the dealer, assuming they follow the guidelines, to pull a Carfax report on every CPO vehicle it does. I spoke with BMW NA and they indicated to me that this checklist must be given to the buyer of the car along with the other CPO documentation for all CPO cars that are sold through their dealerships.

This begs the question...shouldn't the BMW Dealer selling the car be obligated to inform a buyer that the vehicle was in an accident? (assuming it is on the carfax)

The dealer is required to pull a carfax, then continues with the CPO, then sells the car as a CPO but does not inform the buyer that the car was in an accident. This is bad business. I was told "no" my car had not been in an accident. I think it was a "not to my knowledge" by the sales guy...turns out that's standard protocol at this dealership.

[ard]

Originally Posted by desrste

I appreciate the feedback and certainly agree and understand what the CPO is and is not.

I need to clarify my question I guess... Under the CPO Checklist there is a box that must be checked off titled "Carfax". This requires the dealer, assuming they follow the guidelines, to pull a Carfax report on every CPO vehicle it does. I spoke with BMW NA and they indicated to me that this checklist must be given to the buyer of the car along with the other CPO documentation for all CPO cars that are sold through their dealerships.

This begs the question...shouldn't the BMW Dealer selling the car be obligated to inform a buyer that the vehicle was in an accident? (assuming it is on the carfax)

The dealer is required to pull a carfax, then continues with the CPO, then sells the car as a CPO but does not inform the buyer that the car was in an accident. This is bad business. I was told "no" my car had not been in an accident. I think it was a "not to my knowledge" by the sales guy...turns out that's standard protocol at this dealership.

The BMW Checklist I have (dated 6/2006) does NOT have a carfax box. (I also have the CPO Guidelines that JCL posted...no mention of carfax)

Here is the checklist I have:
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/shoppi...inspection.pdf


Assuming there is a box on your form, then if you received a copy of the form, and the box was checked, you were informed. You likely signed a document that said, effectively "I am not relying an anything anyone SAYS, only this written contract".

If they knowingly lied on the forms, they may be liable for that misrepresentation.

A

[Weasel]

I guess not all dealers treat CPO inspections the same... if a car has been in a wreck we don't CPO it... period. We fix any issues we see when doing the CPO inspection including replacing the windshield for even the smallest rock chip as CPO doesn't want the windshields to be "repaired". And the CPO also gives the extended warranty that at least covers most of the stuff from the original warranty. We simply go by the guidelines put forth by BMWNA and don't try to sneak anything past them... But I can only speak for the dealer I work for as far as dealer ethics goes.

[desrste]

The 8/2008 version of the inspection includes the carfax requirement. Here is the link: http://resource.bmwusa.com/Pdf_988f0...cd9e87fc2.arox

This is right from the bmwusa.com website under CPO / certification. I don't know how to update the document here on xoutpost but the 2006 version has been replaced.

[ard]

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately we don't know what BMWs standards are for a carfax preventing CPO certification, correct? (At least it isn't listed in the "CPO Guidelines" JCL linked...)


They probably answered "Yes" and "No", and said "we did a car fax, there was an accident, and it didn't preclude the CPO".True- and misleading.


Legal? Yes.

Edit: If I wanted to be cynical, I'd say they added it on the form so they could limit the disclosure of the actual carfax! "Could you give me a carfax?"... "No need to worry, we've run that as part of the CPO"...

Nah, they can't be that devious....

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Weasel

I guess not all dealers treat CPO inspections the same... if a car has been in a wreck we don't CPO it... period. We fix any issues we see when doing the CPO inspection including replacing the windshield for even the smallest rock chip as CPO doesn't want the windshields to be "repaired". And the CPO also gives the extended warranty that at least covers most of the stuff from the original warranty. We simply go by the guidelines put forth by BMWNA and don't try to sneak anything past them... But I can only speak for the dealer I work for as far as dealer ethics goes.

This. While BMW sets forth the guidelines ultimately it's the dealers (which are independent businesses) that are the ones who determine if the vehicle meets them. As we all know not all dealerships operate as honestly or have the same business practices as others. It's unrealistic given the volume in and turn over rate in an area but, it's too bad the district rep (who is a BMWNA employee as I understand it) isn't somehow involved in approving a car for CPO.

I've been to a few lots where their CPO cars look as good as new and others where I've seen cleaner cars at auction. The car I looked at in VA was a wreck. The one we bought a Penske dealer in ATL looked like it just rolled off the showroom floor.

[Weasel]

Lots of the time great cars go to auction. We don't keep a big used car inventory, so lots of 2 year lease returns end up going to auction while still under 3/36 maintenance. Those are the best ones at the auction that look like brand new.

Heck, my 4.6is would have been sent straight to auction if the guys up front didn't know I was looking for one just like it.