Sad news;

[DWill]

My X5M is once again at the dealer for software "issues"

I was driving it Saturday and the engine light came on.
Took it to the only dealer in SD that had someone that wait for me, Brecht.
Not where I bought the car but the shop foreman who was 15min from being off work said he'd wait for me and at least scan my car.

There we at least 20 error codes. Only two of which had anything to do with the engine. None of them lead to anything that was actually not working.

Last time they had the car for something like a little over two weeks.
This is the second time in for the same problem.

BMWNA is going to be making a least one payment.
If there's a third time they'll be getting the car back.

[deutsch100]

I'm so sorry! I remember on my 2007 3.0si, and to a lesser (but still frequent dealer visits) on my 2008 4.8i....I was constantly having to go to the dealer. Codes, warning lights, etc..

BMW did graciously and somewhat easily buy my X5 3.0si back from me. When I took faith in the E70 again with a 2008 4.8i, and the problem's started , and started big time...they refused to help me out a 2nd time.

I LOVE the E70, but it does seem to have A LOT of problems, especially for being in production now for almost 4 years.

The E53 was bullet proof within a few years of production. I still think the E70 is the best looking European SUV/SAV on the road though!!!

Good Luck & yes demand they make a monthly payment! We did this with Mercedes a few year back, with our SL that sat on and off in the Service Dept. for almost 2 months! They paid a month's payment and installed the Mercedes built in phone at no charge!

[ard]

Originally Posted by DWill

If there's a third time they'll be getting the car back.

Hopefully you are documenting the codes, the issues, etc, so that you have a leg to stand on... I guess this thread is just a 'venting' as opposed to a request for help (without posting the specific codes, there is no help possible)

Do keep in mind that the lemon laws require that it be 'the same issue'. "Software Issues" is not the same issue each time..."CEL light on" is likewise not "the same issue".

If there were "20 codes" on my car, I'd be getting a work order from them with every codes listed.... if one code cause 3 return trips: lemon.

Good luck

A

[THK]

Originally Posted by ard

Hopefully you are documenting the codes, the issues, etc, so that you have a leg to stand on... I guess this thread is just a 'venting' as opposed to a request for help (without posting the specific codes, there is no help possible)

Do keep in mind that the lemon laws require that it be 'the same issue'. "Software Issues" is not the same issue each time..."CEL light on" is likewise not "the same issue".

If there were "20 codes" on my car, I'd be getting a work order from them with every codes listed.... if one code cause 3 return trips: lemon.

Good luck

A

That is incorrect. Most lemon laws state that 1) 3 times for the same repair. 2) Vehicle is down for repairs for 20-30 business days. 3)Problem affects safety, use of operation, or value.

I know the states of Florida and Washington would have a field day for a CEL continuously coming on (would not have to be the same problem). I know, had to defend the auto manufacture I worked for. Some states are pro consumer, big time.

I would recommend you contact the appropriate governing body for lemon law procedures in your state. Information would include what qualifies for lemon law.

Hope BMW resolves your concern.

[ard]

Originally Posted by THK

That is incorrect. Most lemon laws state that 1) 3 times for the same repair. 2) Vehicle is down for repairs for 20-30 business days. 3)Problem affects safety, use of operation, or value.

I know the states of Florida and Washington would have a field day for a CEL continuously coming on (would not have to be the same problem). I know, had to defend the auto manufacture I worked for. Some states are pro consumer, big time.

I would recommend you contact the appropriate governing body for lemon law procedures in your state. Information would include what qualifies for lemon law.

Hope BMW resolves your concern.

Great, a lawyer. In your professional opinion then, if the CEL comes on three times- NO MATTER WHAT THE REPAIR OR ACTION TAKEN- this is a lemon law qualifying situation?

Because that is what you imply.

Originally Posted by deutsch100

I agree with THK. California is pretty pro-consumer. It does NOT have to be the same problem, 3 times, to be the only grounds for a lemon buy back. It can be how many days the car has been in the service dept, and you not being able to use the car.

You actually don't know what you are agreeing to.... Surely there are other grounds for lemon buybacks, but in terms of the "three times" qualification are you saying (like THK said) that any fault that sets a CEL no matter what the repair will get you a buyback?

Nevermind that CA has different numbers of repair attempts depening on the issue...

You DO understand that "California" doesn't actually get involved in this process? There are state laws and regs that define this, but it is up to BMW to interpret and for the consumer to press their issue. You don't call an office and the person in charge says "BMW, pay this" or "BMW buy this back"...

(THK...the 'appropriate governing body'?!?!? That would be the California Legislature. Do you have their number? Seriously, here are the regs: Consumers - Motor Vehicle Warranty and Lemon Law - California Dept. of Justice - Office of the Attorney General )

(edit: penguin already posted this- first hit from a google of 'california lemon laws'...legal geniuses both he and I)

But hey, if you guys are both saying "don't worry about what sets the CEL, three times and BMW automatically buys the car back" then the OP is all set.

[DWill]

So the deal is the dealer reflashed my car again.

A rep from BMW talked to me today. Without going through the entire conversation the bottom line is that shalould the carbthrow any false codes after this reflash BMW will explore a remedy with me.

There is nothing wrong with my car other than software.
As the rep said "you didn't pay $100k dollars for a car you can't have complete faith and trust in, we'll make it right".

As of right now there are no fault codes, from here we'll see what happens.

[X5 Meister]

Agree with ard. Get the codes and post them. 20 is a hell of a lot.

[DWill]

I or a list of the codes from Saturday.

The problem is that the shop foreman at Brecht cleared them all before I left.
So when I got to San Diego BMW yesterday there were no codes. Though they have a copy of the list from Brecht.

It's clear there is something wrong with the software on my car.
Not one of the codes led to anything actually wrong.
For example one of the codes was for "one touch opening" on the sun roof; the sun roof works just like it supposed to.

Another was for the drivers side airbag be being inop; but no dash light and the airbag seems fine (according to the shop foreman).

I was told by the Brecht shop foreman as well as the service manager at SD BMW that BMWNA is buying back a lot of cars due to "software issues". The service manager is working with BMW to get a payment covered.

[jpl]

Software issue.....thats the sad reality, we are no longer buying interresting mechanic and performance, we are buying software, with all the negative that it implies, loss of pilot control, inability to pin point error , difficulties if not impossibilities to find a quick fix other then waiting for the software engineer, inadequacy of the functions available...
by the way, who ask for all that crap,,,is it really what we consider progress.....

my X5 would stop running all of a sudden in the winter.....right in Montreal, the dealer say to keep running and if it re-occur bring it in,...there were no messages....they told me not to worry

I remember how much fun my first 1987 530 was...or was it a 528????
strickly mechanical pleasure

BMW has lost its lustre

[X5 Meister]

Gotta take the good with the bad I suppose. ABS brake technology has saved my bacon several times. No way in the world I would have been able to pump locking brakes 30 times a second in order to avoid an accident. And the traction control system is quite frankly brilliant.