Why would I NOT buy the Diesel?

[steve]

Hi all,

am back in the market for an e70. I have read tons of threads here, but in piecing together all of the information I can, I cannot figure out why I should NOT buy the diesel.

Pros

Better Gas Mileage
Torque
Eco credit of $2,500

Cons

Diesel smell/noise (minimal right?)

Long term reliability?

Forgive the same old argument about which particular X5, but I just can't seem to see why I would pick the 35i instead of the 35d.

Thanks all!

[m3the01]

Checkout this thread,

Diesel CEL\s Poll... how many? - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

[JCL]

I think the long term reliability is a wash, there is nothing to pick between the 35i and the 35d. The SCR fluid (DEF) system gave some problems with early E70 diesels, but they were small issues, and I think that the lack of dealer training and general diesel awareness made it worse. As dealers become more familiar with diesels these issues will drop off.

Fuel mileage, sure. Just be aware that diesel prices may not increase at the same rate as gasoline prices, I think they will tend to rise more quickly, so increased efficiency may not translate into proportionally lower operating costs over the longer term.

Torque is better on the diesel, yes. Revs aren't. I don't think the diesel gets the same transmission as the 35i, maybe it has changed now.

There is little difference in noise unless you are outside the vehicle, and then you have to know what you are listening for. Some won't notice it.

There is no odour when driving, and only an occasional odour when the particulate filter is being cleaned (it smells like burnt caramel).

There is a difference when refuelling, in terms of availability of diesel (improving over time); odour when you get fuel on your hands (disposable gloves help); odour from pumps, etc. Diesel owners tend to get used to all this.

If there is an eco credit that is helping pay for the vehicle, that is as much of a reason to get it as anything. Without any ecocredit, most owners will never pay off the higher purchase cost with any fuel savings, one calculation I did showed that it would take 10 years or so to get to just break even. If the government wants to subsidize car sales, then go for it.

The only difference that matters to me personally is the driving experience. I like high revving engines, and BMW six cylinder engines in particular. The diesel just doesn't sound or feel the same to me. If that isn't an issue, then all the positives make a compelling case.

[ukwildcat]

Originally Posted by JCL

I think the long term reliability is a wash, there is nothing to pick between the 35i and the 35d. The SCR fluid (DEF) system gave some problems with early E70 diesels, but they were small issues, and I think that the lack of dealer training and general diesel awareness made it worse. As dealers become more familiar with diesels these issues will drop off.

Fuel mileage, sure. Just be aware that diesel prices may not increase at the same rate as gasoline prices, I think they will tend to rise more quickly, so increased efficiency may not translate into proportionally lower operating costs over the longer term.

Torque is better on the diesel, yes. Revs aren't. I don't think the diesel gets the same transmission as the 35i, maybe it has changed now.

There is little difference in noise unless you are outside the vehicle, and then you have to know what you are listening for. Some won't notice it.

There is no odour when driving, and only an occasional odour when the particulate filter is being cleaned (it smells like burnt caramel).

There is a difference when refuelling, in terms of availability of diesel (improving over time); odour when you get fuel on your hands (disposable gloves help); odour from pumps, etc. Diesel owners tend to get used to all this.

If there is an eco credit that is helping pay for the vehicle, that is as much of a reason to get it as anything. Without any ecocredit, most owners will never pay off the higher purchase cost with any fuel savings, one calculation I did showed that it would take 10 years or so to get to just break even. If the government wants to subsidize car sales, then go for it.

The only difference that matters to me personally is the driving experience. I like high revving engines, and BMW six cylinder engines in particular. The diesel just doesn't sound or feel the same to me. If that isn't an issue, then all the positives make a compelling case.

Last I checked, the diesel still has the six-speed tranny, not the awesome eight-speed the gasoline version has.

0-60 time is about a second longer on the diesel (this may not be an issue).

Some have posted here on their diesel experiences - a little searching will turn it up. Some have posted very poor mileage numbers, but this seems to be HIGHLY dependent on your driving pattern (shorter city trips, etc.).

There are some.. other issues with a diesel variant.
After reading these forums for almost two years now, X5 diesel owners seem to be much less satisfied than gasoline X5 owners. There seems to be more that actually goes wrong. This is just an observation - I have no empirical data.

I just took my 35i in for some maintenance work this past week and they gave me a 335d loaner. I cannot really fault it (2011 model) but I think that's the very first time I've actually driven a diesel vehicle.

A few things..

Mileage, according to the computer, looked good but then I have very little experience with the 3 series. I reset milage when I picked it up, drove it ~70 miles and it reported an average of about 35mpg. This seems excellent, but again, I have no experience with it. The EPA numbers are 17/24 for the gasoline 335, which, frankly is terrible for this model (in my opinion). I average just over 20MPG in the X5.

But assuming the BC was correct, that's an AMAZING number, yes.

I don't think the diesel hurt the 335's performance much, but again (sorry) lack of experience. It's still quite sporty with the diesel but by comparison, it's kind of a tiny little car.

Thing is.. Diesel is not found at every gas station. I had to go by FIVE gas stations on what is probably the most crowded large street of a city of over half a million people before I found one that even had diesel. Then I had to wait in line behind a large commercial truck that was filling up. Oh, and it was $4 a gallon.

Is there noise? Well, not really. It does sort of jolt you awake when you start it, and while idling you CAN feel it. It is not TERRIBLY distracting but some may find it odd. There was also this vaguely petroleum smell in the cabin the whole time I had the car, but I don't know where it comes from.

Is there anything WRONG with diesel? I suppose not, but the reason it caught on in Europe has more to do with how it's priced and taxed than anything else.

I've read posters here who think it's awesome that their X5 can go 600 miles on a single tank of diesel. Well, my gas X5 can go 530 miles at 75mph on a single tank, and I can find that ANYWHERE.

I think this is less of an issue, really. Just my 0.02.

Personally, I would not buy a diesel. I bought a new 2011 X5 35i PRIMARILY because it had the new engine and eight-speed transmission, and I definitely don't regret that one little bit.

[4MoJoe]

I've not had any issue finding diesel on the road or in town. Chevron & Shell always has it here. There is zero diesel exhaust smell that I can note. I back my X5 into the garage and can't smell a thing from it.

You have to decide for yourself if you like it or not; it's a personal choice. I think the reliability is better than with launch and my dealer has told me that even with the initial launch of the X5 diesel they've not seen issues with it. I've not had any issues with mine so far other than a light bulb. The change from V8 to the diesel was a bit different at first as I loved the sound of the V8...but I love the sound of my diesel now and acceleration. The fueling range is an added bonus.

Personally I think spending the kind of coin it takes to get into any NEW X5 that mileage may not be the only top concern. If you are looking for an economy car X5's are not it.

I also saw a break down the numbers to recoup the extra cost and it was around 3 to 5 years. The reality is that more fuel efficient cars and smaller engines are going to be the norm as this country begins the very long process to shift from a petroleum fuel for autos to alternative sources.

FWIW - I had a 335d as a loaner for 3 weeks when 2004 was having major engine repairs and that is what sold me on getting the X35d. I thought the performance was amazing.

It's no secret that JCL isn't a fan of the X5 diesel and he states it clearly. There are a great many of us here that are and I don't regret buying it at all.

Bottom line, is make the choice for yourself as you are going to be driving it and paying for it. My .02 cents worth. And enjoy it!

[AzNMpower32]

It depends on where you live, honestly. Driving habits also matter.

The irritating thing is that for North America, the 35d is old technology and the M57 engine is roughly 10 years old (although that means it has a dipstick). But ideology aside, it seems like diesel availability and prices fluctuate by region.

My father, who always takes things out of context, leased his diesel and says it's because I was talking it up when I test drove the 335d back in 2009. He lives in the Northeast US (Washington DC area), where diesel appears to be scarcer and more expensive as well. So naturally he blames me, and he said he'd prob get a petrol next time.

Problem is, at the time (and now), I live in the South where diesel is readily available at 4 of 5 fuel stations. Prices are also not too far off; traditionally it runs about 2 cents/litre (about 8-10 cents per US gallon) more than premium fuel. With the recent spike in fuel prices, it's right on par, sometimes even cheaper than premium petrol right now. Combine that with the longer-distance, more highway driving, and it makes sense to get a diesel in central VA and NC. There are quite a few diesel vehicles on the road in NC for sure, because of the excellent highway consumption and price/availability factors above. My next car will probably be a diesel.

Like others said, take a thorough test drive and choose for yourself. I personally like the diesel drivetrain on the X5 (shame his X is so unreliable and is too big but that's another story) and don't see why I'd get a petrol SUV. Apparently Europeans agree- a huge majority of SUVs there are diesel.

[Alan Smithee]

I have no regrets with the diesel. The torque alone makes it ideal for the 5k lb vehicle it is. Having the low urea warning go on the day before heading to the mountains for the weekend was a bit annoying, but the nearby dealer topped it off in less than 5 minutes. Driven with a lead foot (and draining the urea tank in 8k miles), I have averaged 22mpg over 10k miles. Not great, but far better than the 13mpg I averaged with my Audi S4 Avant, and as was pointed out, if fuel economy is a priority, you should be shopping for a different type of vehicle. It may have the 'old' 6 speed, but with low revs and tons of torque, there is no need for a bunch of shorter gears. Although it could use a taller top gear, or a 7th speed OD, to drop revs at 70mph +.

We have an E320 diesel as well (28mpg avg over 5 years), and have had no issues with fuel availability or smell in either vehicle. Since getting the MB in 2006, I have seen diesel prices fluctuate from about the price of regular, to ~.15 more than premium. I would say it has averaged less than premium.

[Stantiva]

TORQUE is what I need in the mountains of Panama. When encountering a 1/2 ton pickup loaded with 2 tons of bananas on a hill you need to pass quickly on the narrow curvy roads. The X30d does the job! Mine is German specs and I still get 20 mpg in the mountains and 30+ on the flatlands. Diesel is subsidized here and is cheaper than gasoline.

[alvam]

I also have no regrets in buying the diesel. I never owned one before and after test driving one against the 35i it was a no brainer for me. The 6sp tranny is not that big a deal with me and if gas mileage is your main concern than IMO you should by a smaller less bulky vehicle and not even be looking at an X anyway.

I have had one issue with mine in 15k+ miles (O2 sensor) and never had a DEF warning yet.

I'd buy one again if I had the need.

Enjoy whatever you choose