Diff fluid changes and transfer case

[JCL]

Originally Posted by ard

I do get a kick out of the lablel, #15. Back in the day, a BMW could be expected to provide 200,000 miles of service. I want a BMW driveline engineer to look me in the eye and say "Yes, that fluid will last 250,000 miles and 20 years"

A

It is even more of a stretch to think he would look you in the eye and say "Yes, we will maintain all computerized service tooling and still be doing flash upgrades and providing new control modules 20 years after the date of production"

You really expect to own one of these 20 years in?

I don't disagree with you on the benefits of changing the differential oil prior to 20 years, but I just wonder how relevent it will be.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by JCL

I don't disagree with you on the benefits of changing the differential oil prior to 20 years, but I just wonder how relevent it will be.

I just got rid of my 1992 Ford Explorer with 198,000 miles last week, and a guy down the road has a 1991 Ford Explorer with 236,000 miles that he still uses... I gave him all my service manuals. So some people keep 'em running that long.

But I agree that today's BMW's are unlikely to be financially viable to keep running nearly as long as today's GM, Ford, or Toyota products. BMW's part prices, lower reliability, and inherient design which requires more proprietary tools and computer programming simply make it too expensive to keep them running after things start to fail. I think people are figuring this out, and that BMW's historic good resale is beginning to suffer as a result, e.g., 7 series resale.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I just got rid of my 1992 Ford Explorer with 198,000 miles last week, and a guy down the road has a 1991 Ford Explorer with 236,000 miles that he still uses... I gave him all my service manuals. So some people keep 'em running that long.

But I agree that today's BMW's are unlikely to be financially viable to keep running nearly as long as today's GM, Ford, or Toyota products. BMW's part prices, lower reliability, and inherient design which requires more proprietary tools and computer programming simply make it too expensive to keep them running after things start to fail. I think people are figuring this out, and that BMW's historic good resale is beginning to suffer as a result, e.g., 7 series resale.

Ard's comment was specific to BMW, though.

I had two Explorers, and two Expeditions. All spent a good portion of their time with me on rough forestry and mining roads, in 4H. I have no doubt that those four vehicles I had could have gone that mileage without issue. I had to trade them due to an employment rule about maximum vehicle age, and I was incented to trade them every 2-3 years.

I agree that with the BMWs it will be a financial decision that causes many of them to be retired, not a mechanical wear issue.

[ard]

Originally Posted by JCL

It is even more of a stretch to think he would look you in the eye and say "Yes, we will maintain all computerized service tooling and still be doing flash upgrades and providing new control modules 20 years after the date of production"

You really expect to own one of these 20 years in?

I don't disagree with you on the benefits of changing the differential oil prior to 20 years, but I just wonder how relevent it will be.

I had a 1990 Q45 with 245k when I sold it.

Computerized. ECU, ABS, bus-linked modules, all the bells and whistles that the BMW has (no nav)... I still see it around, it is still on the road- now 20 years later.

I have a 2001 MDX. Computer. All the above plus more. 207lk, kids beater- but every single module works.

I have every expectation these car will indeed last. I do not expect software updates, but why would you want/need any??? After 5-10 years the software is stable, no need for new code. If you lose a module, head to ebay or a junk yard for a replacement. Indeed, given the numbers of units made, I really don't expect cars being junked due to 'lack of electronic gizmos'

For the last 20 years people have been bemoaning the advent of "these newfangled computer based control systems will mean the end of [DIYers, lifetimes over 10 years, etc]" and it just hasn't happened.

Now, what really happens is (a) people tire of getting screwed over by dealerships and would rather have a monthly payment, (b) most people have no clue how to use a screwdriver, (c) consumers use failures as an excuse to buy new- they don't want to be seen in 'old cars'

Dunno if I'll be owing and driving the X in 10 years when it hits 200,000 miles- but I am figuring I will 'pay it forward' for them with my maintenance. SOMEBODY will benefit from it.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by ard

I had a 1990 Q45 with 245k when I sold it.

Computerized. ECU, ABS, bus-linked modules, all the bells and whistles that the BMW has (no nav)... I still see it around, it is still on the road- now 20 years later.

I have a 2001 MDX. Computer. All the above plus more. 207lk, kids beater- but every single module works.

I have every expectation these car will indeed last. I do not expect software updates, but why would you want/need any??? After 5-10 years the software is stable, no need for new code. If you lose a module, head to ebay or a junk yard for a replacement. Indeed, given the numbers of units made, I really don't expect cars being junked due to 'lack of electronic gizmos'

....Dunno if I'll be owing and driving the X in 10 years when it hits 200,000 miles- but I am figuring I will 'pay it forward' for them with my maintenance. SOMEBODY will benefit from it.

Similar to my '92, '95, '97, and '98 Fords. They also had ECUs, ABS, etc. No communications bus that I ever came across, but they were simpler vehicles. I think a 2010 X5 is exponentially more complex, and that results in exponentially more failure modes.

I wasn't referring to software improvements as much as service diagnostics. No need for new features to be programmed in, but perhaps a need to use a computer to figure out why a transmission is jerking. Oh yeah, that's now, no need to wait 20 years.

I think there are parallels between BMW today and Jaguar in the '60s. Beautiful vehicles, but perhaps not the most reliable. Incredible engineering, but silly stuff broke, and that frustrated owners. People loved them regardless. After 20 years, people were taking mid sixties Jaguars and putting Chevy 350 engines in them, so they could have the looks and handling, but better mechanical reliability. This was even though the Jag straight six engine was an engineering marvel, and had no trouble going high mileages. You just had to stop it overheating, fix the electrical issues, fix the fuel system issues, fix the instrumentation issues, rebuild the suspension, etc. Damn, but there were a lot of parts in a Jag IRS. And all Jag parts were expensive, and you had to find a good independent mechanic to be able to afford to keep it running. Owners formed clubs to support that goal, helping each other solve problems with their cars. So what did we see recently on this site? A thread about putting a Chevy V8 in a BMW to build a more reliable vehicle. I found the parallels striking.