Going to change the oil, where are the jacking pts and oil drain?

[Jeg Norge]

dont need to jack it up. the x5 has enough ground clearance for you to crawl under. it might be harder if your body build is like arnold the governator though.

[ard]

Originally Posted by Penguin

While this is common for a lot of manufacturers, I've never seen this for recent BMWs. Do you have a reference, as I would like to read it and see what they conditions they consider severe service.

Ditto, never saw this for BMWs since I bought the E39. Acura does this as does Ford.

My assumption is that BMW purports their "Condition Based Service" system takes the service severity into account.... (which is great on paper). In practice, we geenrally see all users winding up with the same intervals.

It used to be things like ambient temps, trip lengths, towing, dusty, etc. Were all used to determine which 'schedule' you used.

Although if you think about it, a few hot days, towing for 10% of the time, etc, should not halve the interval of an otherwise normally driven car....

Still, any link or other BMW document (not dealer stuff) would be of interest to the geek squad here!

A

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Penguin

While this is common for a lot of manufacturers, I've never seen this for recent BMWs. Do you have a reference, as I would like to read it and see what they conditions they consider severe service.

I will have to look for it, as I don't have it scanned. I know I have read it in the service guidelines to my recent BMW vehicles, but to be fair, my own documents are BMW Canada, not BMWNA.

From memory, the severe service conditions mentioned were frequent short trips, extended idling, and very dusty conditions. There was no mention of trailer towing.

Edit: It isn't mentioned in my 2008 owner's manual or service guide, so that likely puts it back to my X5. It seemed like only yesterday. Sorry for the confusion. Consider my comment withdrawn.

[JCL]

A further point on the use of approved oils (approved by BMWNA). The most recent owner's manual posted here has a blurb about using approved oils. I only found it since I looked to see if they mentioned the severe service clause (they don't). But they do also mention a separate list for top-off oils. It would appear that since the two requirements are listed separately, that approved oils are approved for other than only top-off. Clip attached from 2009 owner's manual.

Note also that this 2009 document still includes the now-superceded listing for LL-04 oil in North America, in gasoline engines. BMWNA retracted the recommendation to use oil with that spec due to that oil not standing up due to North American gasoline quality.

[ard]

Originally Posted by JCL

A further point on the use of approved oils (approved by BMWNA). The most recent owner's manual posted here has a blurb about using approved oils. I only found it since I looked to see if they mentioned the severe service clause (they don't). But they do also mention a separate list for top-off oils. It would appear that since the two requirements are listed separately, that approved oils are approved for other than only top-off. Clip attached from 2009 owner's manual.

Note also that this 2009 document still includes the now-superceded listing for LL-04 oil in North America, in gasoline engines. BMWNA retracted the recommendation to use oil with that spec due to that oil not standing up due to North American gasoline quality.

man, I simply read this as amplifying their distinction between 'approved oils' (which are not listed in that clip) and oils that may be used to top off if an approved oil is not recommended.

Everything after the text that limits oils to "use for top off" is simply, legally, of zero value in defining what oil should be used to fill the engine.

I know it is mind boggling that they choose such convoluted language instead of a "any of these oils are approved" and be done with it...yet they scrupulously retain ONLY "BMW Oil" as the single oil approved for fills. Weird and annoying.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by ard

man, I simply read this as amplifying their distinction between 'approved oils' (which are not listed in that clip) and oils that may be used to top off if an approved oil is not recommended.

Everything after the text that limits oils to "use for top off" is simply, legally, of zero value in defining what oil should be used to fill the engine.

I know it is mind boggling that they choose such convoluted language instead of a "any of these oils are approved" and be done with it...yet they scrupulously retain ONLY "BMW Oil" as the single oil approved for fills. Weird and annoying.

I guess I didn't read it that way.

• They suggest using BMW oil
• They say you can use Approved Oils (and provide a list separately, in the maintenance guide and from the dealer) instead of BMW oil.
• They say you can use Alternate Oils (meeting any of the criteria listed) for top-off purposes.

Doesn't it seem that Approved Oils are a different category than Alternate Oils (which are apparently only for top-off)?

So, has anybody had an engine failure from using an API-SM oil, and subsequently had BMW deny warranty? I would be surprised. And if there aren't examples, is it a real concern for someone doing an additional intermediate oil change?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by JCL

So, has anybody had an engine failure from using an API-SM oil, and subsequently had BMW deny warranty? I would be surprised. And if there aren't examples, is it a real concern for someone doing an additional intermediate oil change?

I guess I tend to take the simple approach to these things:

(1) Is there any downside to using BMW brand oil for all oil changes while the warranty is in effect?

(2) Is there any upside to using non-BMW Brand oil while the warranty is in effect?

Based on my answers, I go with using BMW-branded and approved oils while the vehicle is under warranty -- why go looking for trouble?

[ard]

Originally Posted by JCL

• They say you can use Approved Oils (and provide a list separately, in the maintenance guide and from the dealer) instead of BMW oil.

No, no, no. The ONLY oil listed as "approved" is BMW oil. This is limited to BMW 'high performance 5w30" or the BMW 'slx diesel' or the BMW TWS 10w60. There is no other "Approved Oil" that BMW lists.

The documents that list 'approved' oils contain the same doublespeak about 'approved for top off', and maintains the distinction between that and the BMW oils that are approved for fill. Nowhere in this thread or in any BMW USA/NA publication is there any oil other that BMW that is "approved".

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I guess I tend to take the simple approach to these things:

(1) Is there any downside to using BMW brand oil for all oil changes while the warranty is in effect?

(2) Is there any upside to using non-BMW Brand oil while the warranty is in effect?

Based on my answers, I go with using BMW-branded and approved oils while the vehicle is under warranty -- why go looking for trouble?

I don't think there is a downside, aside from having to drive to the BMW dealer. So the only upside was convenience.

I haven't done additional (intermediate) oil changes since I had my X5, as it was used in stop and go traffic. I used BMW oil if convenient, Castrol 5w-30 if not.

Took my 535 in today for an oil service called for by the CBS lights. First one was at 22,000 km. This one was being indicated at 45,000 km last summer, but then I pretty much stopped driving the car around September. It sat for most of the last six months. It called for a service at 38,000, so that was 16,000 km instead of 24,000, just based on the changed use (short trips, and not many of those). Since the CBS was tracking it downwards, I never got around to doing an extra oil change on this one.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by ard

No, no, no. The ONLY oil listed as "approved" is BMW oil. This is limited to BMW 'high performance 5w30" or the BMW 'slx diesel' or the BMW TWS 10w60. There is no other "Approved Oil" that BMW lists.

The documents that list 'approved' oils contain the same doublespeak about 'approved for top off', and maintains the distinction between that and the BMW oils that are approved for fill. Nowhere in this thread or in any BMW USA/NA publication is there any oil other that BMW that is "approved".

Except that your document doesn't refer to BMW oil as 'approved'. It calls it 'recommended'. It is the non-BMW oils listed that are referred to as 'approved'. And the owner's manual clearly says that you can use approved oils for other than top-up, a distinction that is admittedly murky in the approved oils paper. It also clearly defines a further class of oils as only for top up, but refers to them as 'alternate' and not as 'approved'.

Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.