turbo charged engines.reliabilty?

[aimtimes100]

opinions on bmws turbo charged engines? i dont know much about the E70 ones but from what i heard about the 3 series coupe there typically bmw(not realiable) but however in 2013 bmw is releasing a new turbo charged 4 cyl engine.looks like they're trying to compete with audis 4cyl considering audis outputs 211hp and bmws new engine outputs 240hp.how are the engines on the general the smaller the engine, the more reliable it is but in a bmw, anything can happen.opinions?

[DeanLinAZ]

BMW turbo charged engines are as reliable as any other manufacturer's turbo charged engines. I've had a 2008 535i and a 2005 PT Cruiser GT for three years and six years, respectfully--no issues with either. My 2011 X5 35i is one year old and it works great.

Most drivers/owners will never know whether they have a turbo charged engine or not, regardless of what brand they drive.

[Alan Smithee]

Turbocharged engines are always going to be less reliable. More parts, and more stress on those parts. When it comes to BMWs, years down the road when turbos need replacement, the cost to do the work will be higher than most; likely more than the car is worth.

BMW has been engineering the disposable car for a while now, starting with "maintenance free" transmissions, then countless electronics. Up until now, at least the motors were still good for up to 200k miles. Not anymore.

[spacegreyx]

92 nissan 300zx twin turbo, 150,000 on original turbo never had a problem. Upgraded the turbo's got another 100,000 miles still no problems. I always changed my oil every 2500 and use mobil 1 full synthetic. Not sure on how reliable german cars are with turbos, but the japanese apparenttly got it right. BTW 96% of the time I drive the Z hard.

[aimtimes100]

Originally Posted by DeanLinAZ

BMW turbo charged engines are as reliable as any other manufacturer's turbo charged engines. I've had a 2008 535i and a 2005 PT Cruiser GT for three years and six years, respectfully--no issues with either. My 2011 X5 35i is one year old and it works great.

Most drivers/owners will never know whether they have a turbo charged engine or not, regardless of what brand they drive.

miles on both?

Originally Posted by Alan Smithee

Turbocharged engines are always going to be less reliable. More parts, and more stress on those parts. When it comes to BMWs, years down the road when turbos need replacement, the cost to do the work will be higher than most; likely more than the car is worth.

BMW has been engineering the disposable car for a while now, starting with "maintenance free" transmissions, then countless electronics. Up until now, at least the motors were still good for up to 200k miles. Not anymore.

thats the way i saw it as well

Originally Posted by spacegreyx

92 nissan 300zx twin turbo, 150,000 on original turbo never had a problem. Upgraded the turbo's got another 100,000 miles still no problems. I always changed my oil every 2500 and use mobil 1 full synthetic. Not sure on how reliable german cars are with turbos, but the japanese apparenttly got it right. BTW 96% of the time I drive the Z hard.

glad to see your Z is holding up well.most japanese manufactures are solid when it comes to reliability but in germany this is not the case.god knows what goes on in the mind of a german engineer.

on this side note anyone having trouble with the multi-quote function?doesn't seem to be working for me

[BGM]

It's one of the main reasons I went with a CPO 4.8 vs. getting the new turbo--I keep my cars 7-10 years and the new turbos haven't been tested in real world application for that duration.

[aimtimes100]

How is it holding up.i kno on the 4.8 E53 X5's the engines needed to be rebuilt in some cases

[BGM]

Originally Posted by aimtimes100

How is it holding up.i kno on the 4.8 E53 X5's the engines needed to be rebuilt in some cases

The e53 8-cyl's were actually the 4.4 (unless you got the 4.8is)--those 4.4's definitely had more problems than the 3.0 (which is what I had before-- an '01 3.0--the 3.0 is bulletproof).

[JCL]

I don't agree that a turbocharged engine will always be less reliable. I also think it is important to separate the concepts of reliability and durability. They are very different things.

If you take more horsepowerpower out of the same engine, by forced induction or other mods, you will reduce durability, since the engine is being worked harder. If you design an engine for that power, however, the same is not necessarily true. All heavy truck engines are turbocharged, and they are very durable. One million miles is not unusual. The engine is simply designed for the power that is being taken out of it. Same with the rest of the powertrain.

Same with BMW, they are not just adding turbos to naturally aspirated engines. They are engineering in the turbos. So I don't think there is any effect on durability, ie how long it will last, unless they decide to design it to wear out sooner. Haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

The second topic is reliability. Reliability (incidence of breakdown) will typically be reduced with added complexity. Turbos do add another thing to fail. However, BMWs don't typically fail mechanical engine components, whether they be pistons, cranks, or turbos. They fail electrical and control components much more often. One of the only control items that gets added to the mix with a BMW turbo (apart from a revised control software) is the wastegate actuator. Guess what rattled on early 3 series turbos? And before worrying about adding a component to a modern BMW, think about how many parts are already on the vehicle. If you want the best reliability, it would make more sense to buy a turbo model with fewer options, ie no NAV, cameras, HUD, LDW, etc. Those are the items that are more likely to fail than the turbochargers, IMO.

I had a 2008 535i for nearly four years. No problems whatsoever with the turbochargers. I had a fuel pump problem, but the same could have happened with an NA version. I would have no hesitation to buy a turbocharged BMW over a naturally aspirated one. In fact, I think it is going backwards to buy one of the last NA versions. You are buying last generation technology, it is already obsolete.

This same discussion happened when fuel injection came out. Some people bought the last models with carburetors. Same when alternators came out, some liked the simplicity of a DC generator, even if it didn't do as good a job of charging the battery. Same with double overhead camshafts. And electric fuel pumps. There are many more examples.

German engineers have been designing forced induction passenger vehicles since the 1920s. BMW introduced a production turbocharged vehicle in 1973, almost 40 years ago. This isn't exactly a new concept.

We have the four cylinder 28i available here in Canada now. Family member just bought an X1, I will drive it in a few days. He says it runs great. My next vehicle will be turbocharged, just because I want the thermodynamic efficiency gains that come with forced induction.

Jeff

[BGM]

Originally Posted by JCL

I don't agree that a turbocharged engine will always be less reliable. I also think it is important to separate the concepts of reliability and durability. They are very different things.

If you take more horsepowerpower out of the same engine, by forced induction or other mods, you will reduce durability, since the engine is being worked harder. If you design an engine for that power, however, the same is not necessarily true. All heavy truck engines are turbocharged, and they are very durable. One million miles is not unusual. The engine is simply designed for the power that is being taken out of it. Same with the rest of the powertrain.

Same with BMW, they are not just adding turbos to naturally aspirated engines. They are engineering in the turbos. So I don't think there is any effect on durability, ie how long it will last, unless they decide to design it to wear out sooner. Haven't seen any evidence of that yet.

The second topic is reliability. Reliability (incidence of breakdown) will typically be reduced with added complexity. Turbos do add another thing to fail. However, BMWs don't typically fail mechanical engine components, whether they be pistons, cranks, or turbos. They fail electrical and control components much more often. One of the only control items that gets added to the mix with a BMW turbo (apart from a revised control software) is the wastegate actuator. Guess what rattled on early 3 series turbos? And before worrying about adding a component to a modern BMW, think about how many parts are already on the vehicle. If you want the best reliability, it would make more sense to buy a turbo model with fewer options, ie no NAV, cameras, HUD, LDW, etc. Those are the items that are more likely to fail than the turbochargers, IMO.

I had a 2008 535i for nearly four years. No problems whatsoever with the turbochargers. I had a fuel pump problem, but the same could have happened with an NA version. I would have no hesitation to buy a turbocharged BMW over a naturally aspirated one. In fact, I think it is going backwards to buy one of the last NA versions. You are buying last generation technology, it is already obsolete.

This same discussion happened when fuel injection came out. Some people bought the last models with carburetors. Same when alternators came out, some liked the simplicity of a DC generator, even if it didn't do as good a job of charging the battery. Same with double overhead camshafts. And electric fuel pumps. There are many more examples.

German engineers have been designing forced induction passenger vehicles since the 1920s. BMW introduced a production turbocharged vehicle in 1973, almost 40 years ago. This isn't exactly a new concept.

We have the four cylinder 28i available here in Canada now. Family member just bought an X1, I will drive it in a few days. He says it runs great. My next vehicle will be turbocharged, just because I want the thermodynamic efficiency gains that come with forced induction.

Jeff

Hey Jeff---I agree it's not always going to be less reliable. But the '08 535 you had with it you had only maybe 3 years tops (if people lease then it's not a big deal it's under warranty). The e70 is also a lot heavier of a vehicle than the 535 as far as weight to move--which can stress the turbo more. Also, when the warranty runs out I don't trust an Indy who has never seen nor barely worked on e70 twin turbo--they might only see 1 if that. To me, better safe than an engine re-build. My $.02.