Tire/Road Noise - 20" BD

[GPSnV1]

The whining from the 20" Bridgestone Duelers on my 2008 4.8i is beyond reasonable. These tires have 23K miles but the noise started probably no later than 10K miles. About the same was true of the OEM Dunlops that made it to 16.5K miles (and might have lasted longer were it not for an upcoming major trip).

I have given up hope on making things better as the dealer says no problems with wheel bearings so I am searching to see if there is anything to do differently with my 2012 5.0i with 20" Bridgestone Duelers.

I have searched here and on other forums, talked to my service rep and the service manager. Sorry, but I get lost in these debates about excessive noise when discussing RTFs, staggered tires, rear-tires that are slanted in (//\\) ('negative rear camber'?), and so on.

I need to find a way to keep the 2012 as quiet as possible (like it is now) but my wife will not give up the OEMs and we need RTFs for two long trips a year plus I cannot rotate the tires so does 'unslanting' the rears lose much in performance or where should I be looking for solutions?

[BGM]

Not sure. My Dunlops have about 10K miles on them--they are fine with no noise at all and still have 60% tread left.

[ard]

The word for 'slanting/unslanting' is "camber".

Leave the camber alone, it is not the cause of tire noise or wear. Keep in right in the middle of the BMW spec. HOWEVER, keep the "toe" (think of the tires being pigeon toed) to the the very minimum of the range- this will minimize wear.

I run michelins on all 5 cars and run them down to the wear bars with little noise issues: PS2s on two cars, Latitude, Cross terrains, and a set of LTX. (The ltx are the noisiest of the bunch)

32k on the X, with latitudes...
A

[BGM]

I've always ran Michelin's as well. But they don't make a RFT in the 20" size (I have to have RFTs since with 3rd row seats I have no spare). I like the Dunny's but will probably switch to the Bridgestone's for slightly better durability (and cheaper) when the time comes. Maybe by then (sometime next Spring) there will be some new RFTs on the market that last longer than 25K miles.

[GPSnV1]

Originally Posted by ard

The word for 'slanting/unslanting' is "camber".

Leave the camber alone, it is not the cause of tire noise or wear. Keep in right in the middle of the BMW spec. HOWEVER, keep the "toe" (think of the tires being pigeon toed) to the the very minimum of the range- this will minimize wear.

I run michelins on all 5 cars and run them down to the wear bars with little noise issues: PS2s on two cars, Latitude, Cross terrains, and a set of LTX. (The ltx are the noisiest of the bunch)

32k on the X, with latitudes...
A

Sorry, but how does one keep the "toe" set in place?

[ard]

Originally Posted by GPSnV1

Sorry, but how does one keep the "toe" set in place?

Not sure I understand...

By 'keep in place' are you asking "how, during the years I own the car, do I keep the toe at any particular setting"

or

"when I change one value on the alignment how to other settings change, and how do I keep the toe from changing"

???

I don't even do my own alignments, so I just have it checked when I buy new tires...and I tell the guy what specific numbers I want for each setting...

[GPSnV1]

I suppose the first as you are using language and concepts foreign to me.

[JCL]

By "keep" Ard means that whenever he has it set at a shop on one of his fleet, he ensures that they set it at the minimum amount of toe-in allowed in the manufacturer's published range for toe-in for that specific model.

In your case, that would mean getting an alignment and asking the mechanic to set the toe-in to the minimum amount of toe-in called for. The mechanic might otherwise declare it to be fine, meaning he doesn't need to adjust it, and you will wear tires faster. Once it is set, it will be fine until you hit something serious, or the suspension becomes worn enough to require repairs (and a corresponding realignment).

If you ski, you will be familiar with snow plowing down a hill (that is toe in) and climbing a hill with your skis in a herringbone or V (that is toe out). You need some toe-in for proper handling, but you want the minimum called for. Any more than that causes the tire to essentially skid down the road, since it isn't pointing exactly in the direction the vehicle is travelling.

Camber gets blamed for tire wear primarily because it is visible from the rear of the vehicle. However, I agree with Ard that toe-in causes much more in the way of rapid tire wear, especially when combined with the designed-in negative camber.

[GPSnV1]

Thanks for the seminar JCL as I now am close to understanding what ARD was saying to me.

[GPSnV1]

I spent time today with the service manager then a tire dealer and neither one gave me hope there was a tire that would avoid excessive tire noise on the road that often starts around 10K miles.