Alignment Question / Help Needed

[Matt_UKTX]

Originally Posted by boyce89976

I would not have two different camber arms on my car. I'd make them replace both front camber arms.

I'm going to let them work through it and see what the outcome is next week. They seem confident that they can fix it. Also, I spoke the the Service Manager (recommended by someone on the forums) at another dealer. He told me they are doing exactly what he would do in this situation.

[Matt_UKTX]

UPDATE 12/6:

So I followed up with my SA today... The replacement camber arm arrived this morning. The dealer installed the replacement part, and hey presto, the car still pulls to the right. So, at this point, my car has been in the shop for a week, and all I have to show for it is a dirty seat, a dirty door panel, and the fact that they replaced a perfectly good camber arm with a new one. I'm actually really not happy that they did this, and when I asked the SA why, he tried to BS me and tell me they replaced a "non-adjustable" camber arm with an "adjustable" one. Unfortunately for him, I had spoken to the Service Director two days previously who told me the camber arm was the EXACT same part as the original one. So, at this point, I'm pretty sure my SA is clueless.

After calling the Service Director again, I got a voicemail this evening telling me that now a BMW Field Engineer has to look at the car and figure out what's going on. Obviously, I'm really unhappy, but more importantly I'm concerned why my car is having these issues. The fact that they can't fix the pulling to the right issue, and the wheel turns more in one direction than the other makes me seriously question if I have a lemon.

I would welcome everyone's thoughts/input. Mike/Ard - any advice?

[Matt_UKTX]

I just sent this e-mail to the Service Director, let's see what kind of response I get

Dear "Service Director"

Thanks for your voicemail earlier. I appreciate the call back. I wanted to follow up with you, so I figured I'd send an e-mail...

I talked to "SA" again today, and I have to say, I'm really concerned. At this point, the car has been in for a week, and from what I can tell, we really haven't made any progress in resolving the issue.

Additionally, I'm confused by some info "SA" gave me. When I spoke to you last week, you confirmed that the replacement camber arm being used was the exact same part that was in the vehicle originally. However, "SA" told me that the replacement part was an "adjustable" camber arm being used to replace a "non-adjustable" one. This seemed off to me, and when I pressed him on the topic, he seemed confused. He was also unable to offer any suggestions or indication of what will be done to solve the issue

I'm also concerned that we may have taken a perfectly good part off a new car, and replaced it unnecessarily. That scares me... as the car is brand new. At this point, I'm worried I've got a lemon. I'm even more concerned about the fact that I'm paying for a brand new car that I can't drive. I'm sure you'll appreciate that it's very frustrating.

Please give me a call when you get chance, and let's figure out what to do next. Should I start gathering the required info to initiate a buyback request from BMWNA? Please let me know your thoughts. If I have a lemon, I'd rather call it now and get it resolved than continue to invest time and effort into an issue that we can't solve. I also don't want a new car that's had a dozen parts replaced through "trial and error" to see if it solves the issue - I'm sure you can understand this.

One a side note, in addition to the "pulling to the right" problem, I'm also concerned about the fact that the wheel turns more in one direction than the other. Everyone I've talked to indicates to me that this is highly irregular.

Thanks again for all your help...

Regards,
Matt_UKTX

[ard]

Tactical mistake. By saying the word "lemon" he MIGHT begin to circle the wagons...If he wants he can say "car operates normally at this time" and tell you to pick it up tomorrow. You will counter 'it pulls'...he will say 'all roads are crowned'... and there you have it, you have NOTHING.

The best way to get a lemon resolved is to have the BMW dealers actually document the faults...By threatening him, he may back down.

Just saying... be nice as pie until it is too late.

Second, who cares about new parts and replacement parts? Non issue IMO. You come off as irrational.

You could have made a bit more mileage with the "SA Thing" by saying, "Look, I know you cannot have highly qualified mechanics at the front line of your shop- and indeed I am no expert- but when SAs fabricate stories it undermines any sense of trust. I'd appreciate it if we could proceed honestly from now on. If you or he doesn't know, say that- dont make stuff up"

Finally BMW likely publishes a very detailed specification on the precise dimensions of the body structure- this is used to repair cars with major damage. (Think clamping the car into a 'frame machine' to straighten it.) You may need to check the frame to see if there was a defect that prevents proper alignment/operation.

And did they do a complete alignment with this new part? Specs/printout?

GL

A

PS So far you have brought this car in ONCE for this 'defect', correct??? "lemon" talk is premature. IMO

[Matt_UKTX]

Originally Posted by ard

Tactical mistake. By saying the word "lemon" he MIGHT begin to circle the wagons...If he wants he can say "car operates normally at this time" and tell you to pick it up tomorrow. You will counter 'it pulls'...he will say 'all roads are crowned'... and there you have it, you have NOTHING.

The best way to get a lemon resolved is to have the BMW dealers actually document the faults...By threatening him, he may back down.

Just saying... be nice as pie until it is too late.

Second, who cares about new parts and replacement parts? Non issue IMO. You come off as irrational.

You could have made a bit more mileage with the "SA Thing" by saying, "Look, I know you cannot have highly qualified mechanics at the front line of your shop- and indeed I am no expert- but when SAs fabricate stories it undermines any sense of trust. I'd appreciate it if we could proceed honestly from now on. If you or he doesn't know, say that- dont make stuff up"

Finally BMW likely publishes a very detailed specification on the precise dimensions of the body structure- this is used to repair cars with major damage. (Think clamping the car into a 'frame machine' to straighten it.) You may need to check the frame to see if there was a defect that prevents proper alignment/operation.

And did they do a complete alignment with this new part? Specs/printout?

GL

A

PS So far you have brought this car in ONCE for this 'defect', correct??? "lemon" talk is premature. IMO

I hear what you are saying, but in Texas the lemon laws are very good (in favor of the consumer). Believe it or not, the car only has to be in ONCE to file a lemon law claim - the key is the duration. I believe it's 20 or 30 days. I need to look again.

I plan to make more of the SA thing when I talk to him, but I don't want to bash his staff to the point that he gets defensive.

Also, he has already acknowledged (and so has his SA in an e-mail) that the car is not operating normally, so I don't have any concern about him telling me to pick it up tomorrow. Additionally, if he does that, I have a backup plan. I have a good SA (someone recommended on Bimmerfest) willing to take the car who has acknowledged something is very wrong. That will count as incident #2 in any possible lemon claim also... However, the other SA has told me to let them try to fix it first, as that's the right thing to do. I agree...

They did a full alignment with the new part, and I have requested the printout. They told me they will give me all the printouts when I get the car back and not before.

On the replacement parts issue, I'm not trying to be irrational... You used a medical analogy once before, so I'll use one now. I equate unnecessary repairs to unnecessary surgery. Why have a surgery if you don't need to? It is an unnecessary risk... Likewise, why replace working parts on a car, unless you know they are defective? The way I see it, no good can come from this, and it's one more thing for the dealer to screw up. Perhaps it is slightly irrational, but hopefully you get my point. I wouldn't let a doctor cut me open and replace organs to see if it makes me feel better, so why would I let a service tech do that on my brand new car?

I agree the lemon talk is premature... I just want the guy to know that I know the law and that I'm not going to be blown off with inaccurate info and excuses.

I'll keep you posted on what happens next. Hopefully my thought process behind the e-mail makes a little more sense now. Let me know if you have any additional thoughts.

[Matt_UKTX]

UPDATE 12/7:

So I think things have finally taken a turn for the better today... I got a call from the Service Director earlier and it looks like the issue is tire pull on the new Continental DWS. This would make sense, as I really only started to notice the issue after the new tires were installed... However, I'd ruled it out because the SA had informed me that he had switched out the wheels/tires with another X5 and it still pulled to the right. Well, after talking to the Service Director, it turns out that the SA only switched the front wheels and didn't look at the rears. What a donkey...

After switching all four wheels the Service Director informed me that the vehicle no longer pulls to the right, which is great. He said they've had a number of issues on the 7-series where the Continental tires were pulling, and that they had to switch them out for Michelin tires to fix the issue. To ensure this is really the cause, they are going to put my original camber arm back on the car (with the stock wheels/tires) and confirm it no longer pulls also.

I called Discount Tire (where I purchased the Contis) and told them the whole story. They were very nice and agreed to switch out the tires for Michelin Tour HP's with no questions asked. I just have to pay the difference in the price of the tires, no other fees for installation or anything. I have to say Discount Tire are a standup operation... Kudos to them for doing right by me.

I've told the Service Director that I still expect them to fix the issue with the steering wheel turning more in one direction than the other, and I still want the printout with all the alignment specs confirming everything is configured appropriately. If for some bizarre reason it still pulls after changing to the Tour HP's, I'll be back again.

I'd welcome everyone's thoughts/comments.

[Xtony]

Originally Posted by Xtony

If your car ran straight before the new tires, it has to be the tires. I had to return my new Contis because of the same problem. The Michelin Latitudes I then installed, tracked perfectly straight. I think the Contis have some kind of issue, since I've seen threads like this numerous times now.

Don't say I didn't tell you so!

[Matt_UKTX]

Originally Posted by Xtony

Don't say I didn't tell you so!

Xtony,

You did tell me so, and I wouldn't have ruled it out if the "Donkey" SA hadn't told me he switched out my wheels with a stock set of another X5 and it still pulled to the right. I'm sure the Director is less than happy with him, since they've wasted a week of labor and a new camber arm based on this information.

Do you like the Michelins? How do they compare ride/noise wise? I'm looking at the Michelin Latitude Tour HP's, not the Diamaris.

[Xtony]

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

Xtony,

You did tell me so, and I wouldn't have ruled it out if the "Donkey" SA hadn't told me he switched out my wheels with a stock set of another X5 and it still pulled to the right. I'm sure the Director is less than happy with him, since they've wasted a week of labor and a new camber arm based on this information.

Do you like the Michelins? How do they compare ride/noise wise? I'm looking at the Michelin Latitude Tour HP's, not the Diamaris.

The Latitude Tour HPs are the tires I ended up getting and they are great so far. Discount Tire gave me a "good" deal on them because of the trouble I had with the Contis. They are almost as quiet as the Contis and much quieter than the run flats the X5 came with. They do handle better than the Contis which seemed to have a very soft sidewall.

[Matt_UKTX]

Originally Posted by Xtony

The Latitude Tour HPs are the tires I ended up getting and they are great so far. Discount Tire gave me a "good" deal on them because of the trouble I had with the Contis. They are almost as quiet as the Contis and much quieter than the run flats the X5 came with. They do handle better than the Contis which seemed to have a very soft sidewall.

Interesting... Can I ask, what kind of deal did you get? I'm getting all the installation and TPMS rebuild kit for free, but paying regular price for the tires...