35d Winter Heat

[grover432]

I'm considering a 2009 X5 Xdrive 35d, but have had poor experiences with diesel when it comes to warming the interior in the winter. Can anyone with an X6 35d comment on warm up times in the winter? Do you know how the warm up times compare with the petrol engine.

It isn't unusual for the temps here to approach -35C in the depths of winter and I don't want a vehicle that just starts producing heat as I am arriving at my destination.

Thanks,

grover

[e70]

Originally Posted by grover432

I'm considering a 2009 X5 Xdrive 35d, but have had poor experiences with diesel when it comes to warming the interior in the winter. Can anyone with an X6 35d comment on warm up times in the winter? Do you know how the warm up times compare with the petrol engine.

It isn't unusual for the temps here to approach -35C in the depths of winter and I don't want a vehicle that just starts producing heat as I am arriving at my destination.

Thanks,

grover

-35C

You can take the Auxiliary heating with remote control.

[grover432]

Originally Posted by e70

-35C

You can take the Auxiliary heating with remote control.

Can you explain this option??

[PeTo_H]

From catalogue:
Auxiliary heating with remote control,
ideal in winter and in cold weather. When you
step into your vehicle, the windscreen is
already free of ice and the interior is already
pleasantly warm.

In other words, you can program the car to start heating let's say at 6:45 in the morning. Before you step in the car at 7:00 the car is already heated up. And it is seperated from the batery, so that it will not kill the battery.

[JCL]

The auxiliary heating option uses a Webasto oil-fired burner, with a heat exchanger and circulating pump. It has a remote and a timer (sometimes optionally). While Webasto makes both diesel and gasoline versions, BMW has only ever offered the diesel version. Lots of details are available on the Webasto site. I haven't used them for awhile, so a caution that they may be offering different versions now than in years past. Webasto heaters are common on diesel powered heavy equipment, trucks, and generator sets, particularly in places where you get those sorts of temperatures. Lots of buses used them as well. Having lived in -40, we used quite a few.

The BMW option does use the battery, but only for the circulating pump and control power, not for heating. I imagine that there is a cutoff so that you don't kill your battery completely.

It will be interesting to see what the effects of very cold ambients are on BMW diesels when they arrive. Perhaps some of our Nordic members could comment. In Canada, #2 diesel gells at about -10 C. It literally turns into a semi-solid that you can form into slush balls. It does not go through fuel pumps. It is commonly thinned out with #1 (stove oil) to handle lower temperatures. #1 is not as oily as #2. The issue with high-tech injectors is that some designs have experienced problems with the winter fuel due to the lower lubricity of the fuel. This results in stuck injectors. I don't know if this has happened with BMW diesels, but I am sure we will find out.

[grover432]

Originally Posted by JCL

The auxiliary heating option uses a Webasto oil-fired burner, with a heat exchanger and circulating pump. It has a remote and a timer (sometimes optionally). While Webasto makes both diesel and gasoline versions, BMW has only ever offered the diesel version. Lots of details are available on the Webasto site. I haven't used them for awhile, so a caution that they may be offering different versions now than in years past. Webasto heaters are common on diesel powered heavy equipment, trucks, and generator sets, particularly in places where you get those sorts of temperatures. Lots of buses used them as well. Having lived in -40, we used quite a few.

The BMW option does use the battery, but only for the circulating pump and control power, not for heating. I imagine that there is a cutoff so that you don't kill your battery completely.

It will be interesting to see what the effects of very cold ambients are on BMW diesels when they arrive. Perhaps some of our Nordic members could comment. In Canada, #2 diesel gells at about -10 C. It literally turns into a semi-solid that you can form into slush balls. It does not go through fuel pumps. It is commonly thinned out with #1 (stove oil) to handle lower temperatures. #1 is not as oily as #2. The issue with high-tech injectors is that some designs have experienced problems with the winter fuel due to the lower lubricity of the fuel. This results in stuck injectors. I don't know if this has happened with BMW diesels, but I am sure we will find out.

JCL,

My last (and only) diesel powered vehicle was a 2004 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton with a Cummins 5.9L turbo diesel. I pulled a 2 horse trailer with living quarters (35' total). In the winter, while hauling, the engine came up to temperature in about 7 minutes, even if it was - 25C and the cabin got very hot. When I wasn't hauling, it was a different story. I remember one winter it was -35 during the day for a week (I live on the prairies) and the engine temp needle didn't move off the "C" for the whole week. The result was luke warm air from the heater and a very uncomfortable drive. Using a winter cover didn't help much.

I too would be interested to hear from our Nordic friends who have experience with BMW diesels. It is one thing to have a pre heater system, but if you are at a movie and the car is at the end of the parking lot, if you are out of range for the remote control, you could have a very cold ride home unless BMW has a system to get heat to the cabin until the engine warms up. In addition, the engine needs to be able to stay warm while driving and especially while idling. Diesels will actually cool down while at idle.

I canvassed this issue with Mercedes Benz. I think the salesman told me the Bluetec vehicles have an electric heater that works until the engine is up to temperature. While this is bound to affect fuel economy, it may be the simplest system for getting quick heat on demand.

[JCL]

If a winter front (full grill cover) isn't sufficient, you may have needed a belly tarp as well. There is a lot of room for cold air to come in around the engine on a pickup truck. Tarps under the truck were common on the early Ford diesel pickups in the Canadian north, and a friend had to use one on his Toyota diesel Landcruiser (I travelled in the Yukon and NWT, pre-Nunavut). As you note, they are required more if you aren't pulling a load.

We also used stick-on oil pan heaters and battery blankets (both 120 volt). Ah, the good old (cold) days.

[fatboyoz]

Originally Posted by grover432

I'm considering a 2009 X5 Xdrive 35d, but have had poor experiences with diesel when it comes to warming the interior in the winter. Can anyone with an X6 35d comment on warm up times in the winter? Do you know how the warm up times compare with the petrol engine.

It isn't unusual for the temps here to approach -35C in the depths of winter and I don't want a vehicle that just starts producing heat as I am arriving at my destination.

Thanks,

grover

Grover,
My Australian delivered 05 Diesel came with the Webasto oil fired heater fitted as standard equipment. It does not have the remote option, but fires up when the X5 is started (only below a certain temperature) and heats the engine and interior heating system very quickly. Cannot imagine this item not being fitted as standard equipment with temp's you mention. Perhaps a call to BMW or a dealer will confirm.
Colin.

[ron_jeremy]

I too would be interested to hear from our Nordic friends who have experience with BMW diesels. It is one thing to have a pre heater system, but if you are at a movie and the car is at the end of the parking lot, if you are out of range for the remote control, you could have a very cold ride home unless BMW has a system to get heat to the cabin until the engine warms up. In addition, the engine needs to be able to stay warm while driving and especially while idling. Diesels will actually cool down while at idle.

Well, living in Norway and using a BMW diesel myself, i see where your coming from.

I've a 01 530Dat right now, and this model is not very good when it comes to heating in extreme low temperatures.
But the newer BMW diesels are far better, i suggest you try one, on a really cold day, i think you'll be positive suprised reagrding heat and the enigine itself.
The engine you are talking about is very often mapped to 330hk and 730Nm.
Wait until the next version of this engine comes, it'll have 3 turbo's and even more power.
Should come first in F01 though, but later it should end up in the X6 also.

[grover432]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

Well, living in Norway and using a BMW diesel myself, i see where your coming from.

I've a 01 530Dat right now, and this model is not very good when it comes to heating in extreme low temperatures.
But the newer BMW diesels are far better, i suggest you try one, on a really cold day, i think you'll be positive suprised reagrding heat and the enigine itself.
The engine you are talking about is very often mapped to 330hk and 730Nm.
Wait until the next version of this engine comes, it'll have 3 turbo's and even more power.
Should come first in F01 though, but later it should end up in the X6 also.

Thanks Ron, I think your idea to try before I buy is good advice. The dealers here won't have the first vehicles until December at which point the overnight lows can dip to -20C or colder. A morning start should tell the story. I didn't need to plug my diesel truck in until the temps dropped to -25C or colder.

As to the earlier post about diesel fuel gelling in the winter; we get winter grade diesel fuel in Canada. I have driven a diesel in -35C weather and never had any problems starting running the engine in that temperature. I'm sure BMW has done it's homework in that regard.

grover