WARNING - The dealer will erase your NavCoder changes!

[trapdoor]

Had the car in at my (not so) local BMW dealer for some work this week. Part of that was updating the software in my transmission. Anyhow, I get the car delivered back, to find that not only had they wiped out my (paid for) Car and Key memory settings, but had also wiped out my Voice Recognition and TV in motion codings - in fact, everything I had coded with NavCoder.

Had a rant at the Service Manager, who smugly tells me that they don't bother to read the vehicle before making coding changes, and it's not their fault if 'unapproved' changes have been made to the software In fact, he was trying to claim that it was these changes that caused the problem and because of these 'unapproved' changes my warranty was likely to be void. He obviously doesn't know his consumer law

So I am back to having to drive 60 miles to book my car in for the car and key codings to be reset - luckily my SES and TVIM settings I did myself in about 5 minutes. Roll on NavCoder being able to code Car and Key Memory too (please Jochen!!)

So be warned. If you take your Navcoder modified car in to be 'adjusted', make sure they know that these changes are active.

[aise]

should the $tealer also have a copy of NavCoder? this is silly, they are not able to see the changes you´ve made with non-official program. key memory and car memory is diffrent, they made a mistake there.

[trapdoor]

Originally Posted by aise

should the $tealer also have a copy of NavCoder? this is silly, they are not able to see the changes you´ve made with non-official program. key memory and car memory is diffrent, they made a mistake there.

That's funny, as SES is now recognised as an active 'unit' when you scan the I-Bus.

So are you saying then that the changes that NavCoder makes are not readable by the BMW system? Surely the coding changes that NavCoder makes are the same coding changes that DIS/Progman makes? Just they use the ODB port whereas NavCoder uses the i-bus.

Basically, as usual the dealers are only interested in taking your ££$$ I mean, to get Voice Recognition installed (activated) in my X3 they wanted to charge me £520 ($1050)!! Oh, and to code the key & car memory was £50 ($100).

I just hope that NavCoder can be developed to do all the coding things that the dealers rip us customers off for

[aise]

i´m pretty sure they don´t see what you do to the car with NavCoder

[trapdoor]

Originally Posted by aise

i´m pretty sure they don´t see what you do to the car with NavCoder

I'll check when I go back in next Friday to have the key and car memory sorted. I will ask the tech to read the car and tell me what he sees. If you do a NavCoder device scan, SES is recognised.

What puzzles me is that the actual SETTINGS in the Bluetooth SES haven't changed, just the fact that SES is active, so I assume that they defaulted every setting in the General Module, and presumably the bit in the X3 that says the car has SES is configured there.

It's all down to BMW grabbing cash. They reckon that if the vehicle wasn't ordered with Voice Recognition when new, then you need an additional module fitted. But some dealers do know how to officially code the SES, but there isn't a retrofit coding path for it, it's some software switch in the GM coding.

I reckon if the tech had bothered to read the vehicle settings (off the GM), and saved them, then this wouldn't have happened. Now, as for TV in Motion, I don't understand that as I thought that was coded in the TV module. But it looks like that may be a GM coding too....

Wonder if Jochen can enlighten us?

[KiwiJochen]

Originally Posted by trapdoor

Had the car in at my (not so) local BMW dealer for some work this week...

...Had a rant at the Service Manager, who smugly tells me that they don't bother to read the vehicle before making coding changes...

...So I am back to having to drive 60 miles to book my car in for the car and key codings to be reset - luckily my SES and TVIM settings I did myself in about 5 minutes. Roll on NavCoder being able to code Car and Key Memory too (please Jochen!!)

It helps if you understand how BMW program their cars for various markets

There are many many programmible options in BMWs

When a car is first configured for a specific market, BMW Marketing Dept sits down with the factory and designs a fixed configuration for the market that complies with local regulations and legislation, and also reflects what they believe to be the right mix of options for the price.

They determine a 'fixed configuration' that then gets set in concrete and becomes known as the 'vehicle order'

So when a car is updated with software, it is updated and configured so as to comply with the vehicle order for that country

So, for example, taking your car into consideration: you had changed a few settings using NavCoder that made your car different to the vehicle order for the UK.

The dealer did exactly what BMW expect him to do: he ran the automatic software update utility on his PC, and that checked the vehicle order, and loaded the correct software and settings to the car, applicable to your country and your vehicle order.

The fact that it overwrote some of your changed settings should not be regarded as the dealer doing something wrong.

I have created for you the ability to customise and alter various individual settings with NavCoder - but I cannot override the country specific configuration, because that resides on the BMW PC, not in the car.

So just accept that the dealer does what BMW tell him to do, and then use my NavCoder afterwards to change your custom configuration back to what you prefer.

However, I do accept that they should NOT have overridden your Car and Key Memory (CKM) settings, as these are BMW designed customer options that you can choose for your car.
I believe they should have first read and printed the CKM settings before they changed anything.
Then do a complete car re-program.
And then ensure the CKM was set back to the customer preference.

I would expect that your dealer should reset the CKM back to your preference at no charge, seeing as CKM is a legimate customer customisation capability.

Don't hassle him about what you changed with NavCoder - this is a private customisation that you did independent of the dealer, so don't even discuss it with him - you'll just confuse him and possibly make trouble for yourself.

As for NavCoder having CKM capability - I am continuously looking at what I can add and how - some things are easier than others...

[trapdoor]

Jochen,

I kind of understand what you say, but there are a number of 'what ifs'.

What if the car had been ordered with SES active (and the customer had paid for it)? Would that coding still have been deleted?
What if this change had been done by a dealer (and evidently some dealers can and do activate X3's SES)? Would the coding be deleted?

I wonder how BMW record and act on 'legitimate' coding of options against 3rd party coding of options? For example, when I had Nav retrofitted by the dealer in my E46, they printed out a vehicle options sheet which had the Nav and Bluetooth SA numbers added to the option list. So when THEY do a coding (retrofit), they do record it somewhere.

I'm actually not at all narked about them deleting the NavCoder applied changes - after all, it's no biggie for me to re-activate it. I am just surprised that the changes WERE deleted, but more importantly that they didn't read and check the settings first. Just shoddy really, and kind of typical of 'rip-off Britain' where we have to put up or shut up when it comes to service, and have to 'bend over and take it' when it comes to paying....

Your software is VERY much appreciated. In a country where you are fined and possibly banned from driving for even TOUCHING your mobile phone when sitting in the drivers seat, for BMW not to have activated SES/VR as standard but to charge you big bucks is just ourtageous.

Keep up the good work and developments.

PS. Why are some 'Part Numbers' displayed by the NavCoder scan in Hex, for example the Tel module is :

TEL Telephone:
Part number 01D5321, version HW 09, SW 66, made by Visteon on 32/04 (August 2004)
Diagnostic index 15, Bus index 13, Encoding index 03

[KiwiJochen]

Originally Posted by trapdoor

What if the car had been ordered with SES active (and the customer had paid for it)? Would that coding still have been deleted?
What if this change had been done by a dealer (and evidently some dealers can and do activate X3's SES)? Would the coding be deleted?

No, because if the car was ordered with SES, or if a dealer enabled SES officially, then the SES option would be coded in the SA coding (SA = Special Accessories) of the car, which is stored in the instrument cluster. NavCoder cannot, unfortunately, change the SA code. So when NavCoder enables SES, it is a change that will always be overridden by a dealer if the dealer recodes the ULF.

Originally Posted by trapdoor

I wonder how BMW record and act on 'legitimate' coding of options against 3rd party coding of options? For example, when I had Nav retrofitted by the dealer in my E46, they printed out a vehicle options sheet which had the Nav and Bluetooth SA numbers added to the option list. So when THEY do a coding (retrofit), they do record it somewhere.

The recording is in the GM and SA coding for the car, which is stored in the car itself.

Originally Posted by trapdoor

PS. Why are some 'Part Numbers' displayed by the NavCoder scan in Hex, for example the Tel module is :

TEL Telephone:
Part number 01D5321, version HW 09, SW 66, made by Visteon on 32/04 (August 2004)
Diagnostic index 15, Bus index 13, Encoding index 03

This is interesting - it may be a part number format that NavCoder cannot handle, hence it displays the raw hex. Please send me a private email with a copy of the log file form when you read the telephone identification data. I can then check how NavCoder deals with the data from your car, and correct any bugs etc.

I need the raw hex showing NavCoder asking for the data, and the data being sent from the TEL to NavCoder

And I also need to know what version NavCoder you are using - current version is v2.3.1

Regards, Jochen

[trapdoor]

Originally Posted by KiwiJochen

No, because if the car was ordered with SES, or if a dealer enabled SES officially, then the SES option would be coded in the SA coding (SA = Special Accessories) of the car, which is stored in the instrument cluster. NavCoder cannot, unfortunately, change the SA code. So when NavCoder enables SES, it is a change that will always be overridden by a dealer if the dealer recodes the ULF.



The recording is in the GM and SA coding for the car, which is stored in the car itself.

Ah, now that explains it. Pity that you can't code the SA area though..

Originally Posted by KiwiJochen

This is interesting - it may be a part number format that NavCoder cannot handle, hence it displays the raw hex. Please send me a private email with a copy of the log file form when you read the telephone identification data. I can then check how NavCoder deals with the data from your car, and correct any bugs etc.

I need the raw hex showing NavCoder asking for the data, and the data being sent from the TEL to NavCoder

And I also need to know what version NavCoder you are using - current version is v2.3.1

Regards, Jochen

I'll have to connect to the car again tomorrow, as I didn't have a logfile saved. I just saved a list of visible devices. I'll send you that too, as BODY, EWS, PDC, 66, RAD, TEL and TV are all showing a hex part no.

What sort of log do you want? A log of the device scan?

Mark.

[KiwiJochen]

Yes, just a device scan is enough

Jochen