Disappointed with Tele Atlas 2010 Map Update

Brian-bmw · #1 05-17-2010, 01:23 PM

I have had my 2010 map update for a couple weeks now, and i am disappointed. It seems to have moved backwards in data quality and usability from what I am used to. Here is my email exchange with Tele Atlats. (I intended my original note to go to BMW, but it got routed to Tele Atlas instead.) I plan to contact BMW-NA.

This is just a quick buyer beware for the new disks. And, if you already have the update, and you notice a loss of performance, you might want to contact Tele Atlatlas and BMW as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Email Exchange with Tele Atlas

-----Original Message-----
From: BMW GPS Maps <[email protected]>
Sent: May 17, 2010 9:36:29 AM GMT
To: Brian
Subject: RE: BMW Map Quality [181259:58577]

Good Morning Brian,

Thank you for contacting us about your map data update. I do sincerely apologize that you didn't find the update beneficial. Tele Atlas has a customer reporting tool called Map Insight. This tool allows customers like yourself to report and provide us map update changes. Map Insight is a web-based reporting system that collects information about differences between Tele Atlas map data and the real world. Although Map Insight presents a map to help you identify the location of a change and then collects detailed information about the change, it does not update the map directly. Map Insight is just one of many inputs into the Tele Atlas operational systems, in addition to our existing sources.

Please visit the website at Map Insight to provide us your feedback directly.

The world around us is constantly changing, we strive to provide the most accurate maps available and our Map Insight reporting tool helps us to do so.

Please don't hesitate to contact us via email or call us directly at 1-866-543-6848 if you should need any further assistance.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Best Regards,
Corrina
Tele Atlas/BMW
Customer Service Associate

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian"
Received: 5/10/2010 5:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: BMW Map Quality

I have been using BMW navigation systems for almost 10 years now. I just purchased the latest 2010 map update DVD for North America (DVD North America High, part number 65 90 2 158 157). I am a little disappointed in the new map disk set for a number of reasons. I understand that BMW moved to a new map data provider, but this is lower quality than the earlier products—I think that BMW confused volume for value.

The new map data are less accurate. A street address error that was corrected over four years ago on the old map disks has appeared again in the 2010 disks.
The new map data are not as refined. I have noticed that the nav computer now alerts me to “go straight,” “bear rights,” etc. in areas where no instructions are needed. These unnecessary instructions typically come on a high-speed, limited access highway. The old map data somehow had the intelligence coded to let the nav computer know not to speak in those areas.
The new map data are not as optimized. I have noticed that the nav computer now recommends some less efficient routes that it did not plot using the former map data.
The new map disks are inconvenient. One of the major advantages of the DVD navigation computer in the newer cars is that all of North America came on a single disk. We have lost that advantage. There may be more data that warrant the multiple disks, but it does not appear that new data are actually useful to me. Now I can no longer plot a long-distance drive in my car effectively, because the data are split across disks.
The new map disks are much slower. My navigation computer could display a 250 mile scale or 500 mile scale view in a matter of seconds. With the new map disks, the same view takes minutes. This is orders of magnitude slower. This is not a defect in my nav computer or disks, because others I know with new updates and different BMW navigation computers share the problem.

Given #1 and #3 above, I feel like my BMW navigation computer has become less trustworthy and valuable to me. This new data is a move backwards. I hope that BMW works aggressively with this new vendor to correct the problems and resotre the data quality we enjoyed for many years.

Thanks,
Brian

ccfj1 · #2 05-18-2010, 04:13 AM

Not a very useful response really, typical corporate lip service.....

Go back to the 2009 disc mate.

Brian-bmw · #3 05-18-2010, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccfj1

Not a very useful response really, typical corporate lip service.....

Go back to the 2009 disc mate.

I agree. I will continue using this for a while, but I might yet go back to a 2009.1 North America DVD from Navteq.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big bob

Report your problems and see if they fix it. You can't expect them to beat 9 years of map development on thier first go.

I had already reported the one error I found, and it appears that it is already most of the way through Tele Atlas' fix process. That will be good. However, as you note, that does not resolve "9 years of map development."

Here is my reply back to Tele Atlas...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reply to Tele Atlas

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 1:06 PM
To: BMW GPS Maps
Subject: RE: BMW Map Quality [181259:58577]

Thank you very much for your follow-up. I did find your Map Insight link last week, and I submitted the one error I noted in my email below. My error has already progressed into the last stage of resolution. It appears that this group is very responsive, and I appreciate that.

However, this is not the point of my note below. I understand that map data will have individual errors, and that the map data suppliers will have processes for resolving errors. My point is that the quality of the Tele Atlas data appears to have moved backwards by several years, compared to the Navteq data that I am used to. Map Insight is helping to resolve the one error I found. But that does not address a systemic regression of errors that are probably also present in the data that I do not know about. Furthermore, Map Insight does not solve my issues #2, #3, #4, and #5 below.

When I wrote this letter, I intended it to go to BMW. I encourage you to escalate this within your Tele Atlas organization and forward it to your counterparts in BMW. Based on my brief experience with a navigation system using Tele Atlas data, I cannot recommend navigation systems using these data. I will hold off buying another map update at least one year, and maybe several years. In fact, I may go back to the BMW 2009.1 disk that was last published by Navteq. Furthermore, I will discourage my associates from purchasing navigation systems based on Tele Atlas data. In my humble opinion, it is not as good as Navteq data at this time.

I am writing this, because I want Tele Atlas to catch up. I also like BMWs very much, and BMW appears to have standardized on Tele Atlas map data for the near term. If I purchase another BMW navigation system, I hope that it will have the highest possible map data quality.

Sincerely,
Brian

One final thought on this... This represents one persons experience in one area. Your mileage may vary. I suspect that Tele Atlas may have superior mapping data in Europe, at least that is what others have said. Tele Atlas may even have some areas of superior mapping in North America and they may have some advanced 3-D data. But in my area on my BMW MKIV navigation computer, Tele Atlas data appears inferior to Navteq data.

big bob · #4 05-18-2010, 04:57 AM

Report your problems and see if they fix it. You can't expect them to beat 9 years of map development on thier first go.

X5 Meister · #5 05-18-2010, 03:14 PM

Very interesting dialogue and some great points. Here are just my thoughts:

On your point:

#1 - so far I have not been ably to verify if the 2010 are more or less accurate based on a bunch of addresses that I commonly use. I will say this however, I submitted a bunch of changes to Navteq over the years and from update to update they never incorporated the changes. In fact, after I'd get the auto-reply case number, I'd never hear about it again. This is one area where I am hoping TeleAtlas does a better job.

#2 - I can't tell if this is the case or not. I usually leave the voice commands off as they were frequently annoying unless I was in a completely foreign area, and then if they bugged me I would just turn them down a little.

#3 - This is my biggest hope, that the routes are more optimized. I've requested countless times for routes without tolls and have always been led astray, even when I was proceeding on a known route with no tolls to a given destination. It was as though the system refused to acknowledge any other possible route no matter what I tried. I really hated this problem the most.

#4 - I agree, it is too bad that they are split onto 2 disks. It's not a big problem for my location, but I can see it being an issue for some people. I think they put so much information (POI's) into this disk that the sheer volume of that data is what caused the problem. Do I really need to know every Mexican restaurant with address and phone number within a 250 miles radius if I'm allergic to Mexican food? No. Do I need to know all the locations of the GAP in North America? We'll considering I've never been in one, then I'd say no to that as well. However, they must feel that some people do. Oh well. I guess we can just hope that the next update is double layer...and works properly.

#5 - I have to honestly say that my impression is the same as yours on this point. For whatever reason, when making large scale differences it seems to take a much longer time to show up all the info. I don't know why this is the case, but I have sort of worked around the problem by only making one or two increment scale changes at a time.

I can deal with pretty much all the issues above, though a fix for #3 would be the best news for me. The only other thing that I'd give just about anything to have is a dedicated button to change from split-screen view to full-screen view.

Keep us updated on what they tell you.

X5 Meister · #6 05-28-2010, 03:05 AM

Update:

#2. I will have to agree. I am finding the newer disks to be quite a bit more verbose than previous updates. It seems to give me a lot of fairly obvious instructions like 'continue straight,' etc. Though I do have to admit I kind of like the 'you are so good looking' and 'you quite clearly are the best BMW driver' comments.

UCrewX5 · #7 05-28-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

Though I do have to admit I kind of like the 'you are so good looking' and 'you quite clearly are the best BMW driver' comments.

DWill · #8 05-28-2010, 11:16 AM

Against Garmin Nav tech is pretty bad as well.
But I agree these new maps are really bad.

Brian-bmw · #9 05-28-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWill

Against Garmin Nav tech is pretty bad as well.

Garmin uses Navteq data.

dwaynemosley · #10 06-04-2010, 11:18 PM

I have an '06 Z4M with the same NAV system used in the non-idrive X5's. I have traveled long distances in it quite a few times and am very familiar with the NAV and its personality. It typically works very well. I also have a '10 e92 M3 with the "new" hard drive based NAV system using the TeleAtlas maps. Over the last month I've been out of town several times in the M3 in unfamiliar areas trying to depend on the navigation system to get me where I want to go. I've experienced the same issues in the M3 that you have with your updated TeleAtlas maps.

Same thing with the E92, "The new map data are less accurate. A street address error that was corrected over four years ago on the old map disks has appeared again in the 2010 disks".

Same thing with the E92 - "The new map data are not as refined. I have noticed that the nav computer now alerts me to “go straight,” “bear right,” etc. in areas where no instructions are needed. These unnecessary instructions typically come on a high-speed, limited access highway. The old map data somehow had the intelligence coded to let the nav computer know not to speak in those areas".

Same thing with the E92, "The new map data are not as optimized. I have noticed that the nav computer now recommends some less efficient routes that it did not plot using the former map data". This has happened so many times in the E92 I now have to analyze the routes myself and compare them to a road atlas I'm constantly carrying in the car.

With the same problems existing across two different systems, it appears the TeleAtlas map data is the only thing in common across both of them. Hopefully BMW or someone will put a boot up somebody's a$$ and get this mess straightened out. I can speculate why they changed map data providers, so I hope they saved enough money to pay for all the upcoming disgruntled users.

Thanks for sharing your information with us. Glad I haven't forked over the money for the Z4 map update. Sorry you got stuck with such a piece of crap.