New 3 series confusion!
 

I'm planning on ordering a 2006 330i somtime next week. I am going to lease it for 36 months. After working through some initial confusion about various issues, I now have some major confusion. :damn:

I have been reading about potential changes in the 3ers lineup for the coming model year. It has been confirmed that there will be a 335 twin turbo engine introduced. It is less clear whether that will be offered in only a coupe or also in a sedan. All the press has been focused on the upcoming coupe that should be going into production this June.

The current lineup offers a 325 and a 330. Both are 3.0L engines despite the badging. There is a 40 HP difference between the two. This is not the first time in BMW history that this has been done. Just a few years ago there were E46 323's with 2.5L engines. Anyway, a rumor is around that with the introduction of the 335 there will be too many offerings in the range with the 325, 330, and 335 so there will be some major changes. There are many opinions out there as to what will shake out in the end. Will it be 325/335? 323/330/335? 328/335? :dunno:

I am concerned because I could wind up with a 330 that is a white elephant being only produced for one model year. That would be strange. It might not matter that much since I'm leasing but I'm still concerned. There might even be some changes in what options are included or whether there will be other upgrades to the existing models. This too has happened in the past when the 323 was rebadged to the more accurate 325 and got more power and options for not much more money.

Any of you have opinions or better yet, reliable insight?

My opinion doesn't mean anything, but I'm pretty sure they'll have three models 325/330/335.

Jury is still out whether or not the sedan will get the 335i for the 2007 model year. BMW might keep it an exclusive for the coupe (most likely). No doubt, eventually the series sedan will get the 335i motor (probably an 08 model). BMW might however, decide to start the 08 model years early (March 2007) - BMW keeps doing this (starting the model year early) when they transition new engines into the line-up (E60 engine changeover comes to mind).

The 330i motor isn't going away. It's either going to become the mid-range model or the low range model. The N52 engine is here to stay. The next revision will have fuel injection - thats a couple years away.

Due to emission laws, the 2006 U.S. 3 series all share the same 3.0L engine. The 325i has different software combined with a single stage intake manifold and a couple minor hardware changes which reduce the power by 40hp. Therefore, they are essentially the exact same engine. In europe, the 325i is actually a 2.5l (which is able to pass emission tests i guess)...

Rumors do point however, that the current range will eventually end up with a 328i/335i. My guess is that will happen at the mid-cycle refresh point, where we will see the new N52 (N54 i believe, I'm not sure on the codename) based direct injection engines.

Optionwise, the 330i will eventually get nightvision, automatic headlights, etc... You won't be missing much, and these additions probably won't come until the E90 mid-cycle refresh at the earliest (again MY08 or 09).

So, I say go with the 330i. Unless you find that underpowered. In the worst case, the 335i will come out, and you'll be missing out on a new faster, albeit unreliable motor (BMW is going to take a while working out the kinks on this one).

Your opinion is consistent with much of what I have read. :thumbup: I personally believe that BMW will not want to have more than two engine offerings for the 3er, notwithstanding the E90 M3. You are astute in suggesting that the 330 will still have some life in it and should not be rendered obsolete or undesireable anytime soon. One major thing you hit on is the untested reliability of the new 335 twin turbo engine. BMW hasn't produced a turbo engine since, what an ancient 7er? (I'm not counting turbo diesels.) I think the general rule that first generation anythings aren't good and add to that the introduction of turbos and there could be major problemos. It brings the early S54 engine failures to mind.

Speaking of S54 engines, I'm having 2:30 am Internet surfing ideas about leasing a CPO E46 M3. There are some good looking ones for much less than a new E90. Hmmmm.

Yes I do believe that BMW will have some trouble with the new dual turbo engines. Although to be fair, in recent years they have been building dual turbo diesels (535i comes to mind).

Hmm... sure M3's are great, but considering you originally set out for an E90, i'm presuming that the E90 would still suit you (whether $$, rationally, CEOly :)).

Having been in the new E90's, I'd still say go with the E90. The M3 is a great beast, no doubt about it. But there is something about owning a new and cutting edge vehicle - now especially that the E90 is still cutting edge, but old enough to have the major kinks worked out... Not only that but you are getting a 330i, which is going to look oodles better then the run of the mill 325i's (bigger spokes that fill the wheel wheels, chrome grills, etc...)

But if you do go the CPO route, with all the recent hassle others have experienced on the board with CPO cars, I would just say, make sure you find and get to know good dealer (intimately;))...

Dunno if this is an option, but why not wait for an 07' 3 Series? By then ALL the first model year kinks will be worked out, and you'll know ahead of time (a couple months before they arrive at dealers) what the engine choices will be available by then.

Kevin - Check out this Bimmerfest thread.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=142429

Somebody posted BMW's 2007 CARB certifications. No 325i and 330i submitted for 2007, but 2 new models - 323i and 328i. The 335i is a sure thing as per BMW's announcement, but was probably a separate CARB submission. Anyways, all very confusing and full of speculation. I'm not sure it's going to help you, but it sheds light on the upcoming model line.

Seems to be a consensus that the 2007 model line is 323/328/335.

One thing caught my eye - a 2007 328ix sports wagon with a reputated 235 HP - a possible wish list car when gas goes to $4.00.

i say wait a little for the new bi-turbo engine (virtually no lag thats what they say) and get 335 :)

I would say wait too if you don't really need the car right now even though the 330i is really nice itself. Only one thing i don't like about the new 3-series are the little amount of leg room in the back.

Guys there's nothing new about the 323i.

We have it here in Canada. It uses a 2.5L I6 making 174 horses at @ 5800rpm and 170 torque @ 3500rpm.

It does 100km/h in 8.9 with Steptronic and 8.0 with a stick.

It's $5000 cheaper than the 325i, and I guess it's a good deal.

It only comes with leatherette interior.

http://www.bmw.ca/configurator3/Zoom..._A22_BW154.jpg

I think the most probable lineup is 323i / 330i / 335i

I think that the 325i "deserves" to get killed most because it's just too close to the 330i in terms of power and features. The horsepower "space" between the models would be more appropriate.

323i = 174hp
330i = 255hp
335i = 300hp
M3 = 400hp

You see here, that with my schematic, we would be getting a linear 50 horse increase with every normal model. The M3, of course, is much more powerful, as M cars should be. :)

I read a lot of E90post today...

I must say that now I am more confused then I ever was...

I say, wait for the 07' model if you can. No-one is really sure what is happening, and its hard to sift all the B.S. floating around...

Yup, that's why I am so confused too. There are many theories out there and BMW is holding its cards close. The CARB sheet mentioned above is informative but doesn't really tell us what BMW AG has up its sleeve. I am really thinking that the 330 will go bye-bye for MY '07.

Can I wait? Well, I can and I can't. My wife's car has a couple of buyers lined up and it's the sort of thing that we want to capitalize on to avoid advertising it, etc. If we sell it now we'll only have one car and that won't work. I would also like to get something soon so that we can get the most out of the tax write-off for this year.

I am waiting to hear back from the sales manager I'm working with. He said that BMW has not given them any information but he will try to find something out. I am now considering other options. I'm not keen on buying a 330 only to have it be a one MY car. I might even consider a 530 unless there is similar monkeying around with that model as well, as in a 535. Then there could be a 525, 530, 535, 550. :tsk: That's a whole other can of worms.

You lightly mentioned leasing an E46 M3...is that not an option?

Well, this is just more speculation, but here is my take:

The 335 will run for a year in the coupe before it gets to the sedan. That is a way of limiting BMW's exposure to any new model bugs. Also, the E60 needs the 335 engine more than the E90 does, so look for it there.

The 323 that we got in Canada this year will make it to the US this coming year. No way that this is too many models, check out how many variants are available in the rest of the world.

The 325/330 will combine into the 328 this coming year. Pure guesswork here. It could take a year for this to happen to the sedan, until the 335 engine is in full production.

No one should own the first year of the 335. Those who haven't learned from history are doomed to repeat it.

Skip the CPO E46 M3. Yes, a great car, but it is now dated. It is going to get more dated.

Finally, even if the 330 disappears, it doesn't matter if you have one of the last of the 330s if you are leasing it. Great car, great engine. Someone else's depreciation problem. Available now. Buy it now.

Jeff

They just introduced 2 new engines (215hp and 255hp) why would they kill them right away? make no sense to me! That will bring horrid depreciation too

In NA, the 325 and the 330 are the same engine with changes to software and the intake manifold. The 328 would be in the same vein. So, they wouldn't kill anything, just revise it slightly. Deck lid badges are cheap to design. And new models will drive new sales. BMW purchasers include a significant number of the 'got to have the latest and greatest' crowd, myself included.

Good advice indeed! I'm not so worried about the 330 going away since I will be leasing. It's my first lease so I am concerned that somewhere in the 36 months the residual will change due to the car no longer being manufactured in that configeration. :dunno: I actually doubt that the US will see the 323. We have seen examples where the less powerful variants did not make it here despite being available in Canada. For example, there was never an E36 320i here. Most of the speculation is for the US market to get a 328 and 335. If they keep a 330 in the offerings then the guess is that the 335 would have to be priced far enough above the 330 to make a distinction. That is believed to put the price of the 335 too high, thus to create comfortable price points, the 330 would be discontinued. The 328 would replace the 325 and the 330 in one fell swoop and would be priced and powered sufficiently below the 335. This is all educated guessing.

I guess the E60 would be an even worse move since it's more expensive, less attractive, and more in need of the 335 engine. You are totally correct that the 335 engine should be avoided like the plague until it's second year. An E46 M3 would be very nice but in addition to it being long in the tooth, there would be no maintenance with the CPO lease. Also, to get one in the same price range as a 330 would mean an '02 or '03 coupé.

It would be odd to have 215 and 255 hp ratings for just 1-1.5 years. There will be a change to 323i and 328i, but I think the current 255hp rating will stand with the addition of the 335i and its new engine.

With the addition of the 323i and the future 1 series introduction to the NA market, BMW seems like it is serious about going after the whole 20k price range. I don't see any holes.

btw, they unveiled the coupe on e90post yesterday. Well they caught spy pics of it totally naked !! It seems like the E90 has stiff competition versus the E92 (well for me at least!).

I agree with JCL, the 335 won't make it into the sedan the first year. Not only for reliability, but BMW will want to make it exclusive, and boost coupe sales any way they can. Then the next model year they can boost sedan sales by pushing in the 335 engine into the sedan. My guess is that the E90 will get another early model year, and start its life in March 07 as the 2008 3 Series. That way they can squeeze out some sales of the coupe, but not loose too many sales on the sedan (as the new G35 comes out in Nov)... Makes sense to me.

The 323 available in Canada still uses the E46 engine no? Wouldn't it make sense for BMW to upgrade this engine and then sell it to the U.S. market? BMW could then make the 323, 328 & 335i. But an actually attractive 323, instead of the current less then inspiring engine currently provided.

I believe there are going to be 3 models for the U.S. line-up. Someone made a point on E90 post about no 1 series sedan in the forseeable future, and without BMW ever bringing the 1 series hatch to the U.S., there would be a big hole at the very low end of the spectrum - enter the 323i. Then you could have the 2 series right above it, and then the 328i and 335i right above that. Essentially the 328i taking the 325i's slot and the 335i taking the 330i's slot with the 323 seriously undercutting both.

No-one really knows what BMW is up to, but it really is going to be interesting watching what happens over the next few months..!

Random idea, but maybe buy a car from the line-up that won't get hit bad and then switch over to the 335i? What about a CPO E46? Those won't take such a hit since they already took the launch of the E90. Maybe that IS isn't looking so bad right now... hahaha

For Leasing, your residual is set when you sign the contract my friend

It is awfully confusing. :confused:

I can't obsess over it. I'm not too keen on the 335 because it's going to have problems. I will still not go with the IS 350 although for a fleeting moment it re-entered my mind. I actually placed my order for a 330 today. It's going to be a Week 17 build. No money has changed hands and if I don't want it someone will for sure.

Exactamundo. I have learned that the residual is set by BMWFS at the get-go and that's the guaranteed value at the end. It's set at 62% right now.

As I posted above, the order is in. :D

well jeez, Kevin, at least tell us what you ordered... Color? Options?

Check it out. Not bad, eh?

There seems a lot of confusion principally on the US based forums where many consipracy theories abound. Here in Europe the thinking is much simpler. I haven't time to go back and search through BMW press statements but the 335i engine was developed to fit between the 330i and M3, they said that over a year ago. The 330i has only just been re-released with it's magnesium crankcase and improved induction so BMW have no plans to throw that R&D investment away. I presume the 325i will remain, So we have 325i, 330i and 335i, then M3 and above that a more powerful M3 CSL (but only in Coupe form).

The 335i engine will be fitted to all variants (saloon, coupe and touring) and whilst they may phase it in starting with the Coupe this will only be to allow for production to ramp-up, not for exclusivity. The E92 Coupe will sell for enough reasons without needing a unique engine. (although there was talk of the 335i engine in the Coupe being 20-30bhp more than in the saloon).

As for reliability, I forget that turbocharged BMWs are new to you guys in the States, for us they are not and it's a well proven technology that BMW have built considerable experience in over the past 10 years. The 335i adopts many of the technologies BMW have been using in their diesel engines so I would have no concerns about owning the first batch. We have a 3.0d engine in our family and it runs faultlessley.

So if you're thinking about leasing a 330i I would say go ahead. The 335i will be more expensive than the current 330i (about on a par with Audi's S4 - perhaps five thousand short of an E46 M3 price), and therefore the 330i will still be a very desirable mid-range model in the 3-series range.

BMW could of course do something completely different to what they've already told us, but they're Germans and that would be very unlikely.

We'll know more in 2 weeks time when the press embargo is over and details emerge.

All good points, sir. I hope to enjoy the 330 immensely.

Here's some official information to set your mind at rest..

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/