Life vs death penalty
 

OK, I swore I would never start a political thread again, I lied. Moussaoui jury came back with life in jail. Guliani and most everyone else was disappointed that the jury did not come back with the death penalty. WHY should we put him to death. That's what he wants. Easy way out. He then becomes a martyr. I say let him rot in jail for the rest of his life and not take the easy way out. I don't mind my tax dollars paying for his misery.

I was waiting for WagnerX5 to post this. ;) I do not like my tax dollars paying. :tsk:. Edit: I stand corrected, let him rot and save us money.

lol i think its good that now he stays in jail then lettin him go easy and just kill him. that what hes hoping for.

I agree with L...
He's off to SuperMax in CO.

It's not a fun place to spend the rest of your days in
99% near solitary. Let the MF'er rot there.

If he had gotten the VahallaRide decision, it would be years of
jive jailhouse lawyer crap, hand wringing by the save-the-world
from itself, bleeding and misguided near do wells, and all the punque
jihad gangs on the planet, lining up to seek retribution for one of
their "hero/martyrs".

Let 'em grow old & die, crazy as a bed bug and, rotting in the Joint, imo.

Giving someone the death penalty is more expensive than giving someone a life sentence, as mentioned here. So I'm glad he got life...saves everyone money. Going to prison for life might be a death sentence itself since I'm sure not many in prison will take kindly to him and will give their own version of a death sentence. I'd be for the death penalty if "cruel and unusual" punishments were allowed. As much as we are a civilized society and above such barbarism, it's hard not to stoop down to that level when you see a fellow compatriot getting their throat slit. It was by far the most disturbing video I ever saw.

EDIT: well maybe he won't get killed in prison...he's going to the Supermax in Colorado. Apparently, psychological isolation is part of the punishment. In any case, it would be much better to see him sit in prison and rot. Loss of freedom is probably one of the worst punishments that could be given to someone who once had it.

:iagree:

Hope they don't send him to one of these prisons.

As I'm guessing the little "Edit" here is for....

....what most people do not realize is that it costs far more to put someone to death than for them to spend life in prison. Court costs are much higher than is the cost of bread & water and a 8x8 jail cell.

You can be pretty certain that Moussaoui will not appeal his guilty verdict in this case, so as far as the courts go, this case is closed. But if he had been sentenced to death, most likely there would have been an appeals process. That means hearings in front of a judge, with court employees, state-provided legal team, etc. One day in court costs more than 10 years in prison. Now multiply that by however many appeals you are allowed, and you can see how it is so expensive.

Also, the appeals process takes time. If you ever watch the news, whenever they execute someone, it is usually for a crime that took place 20 years ago. That's beause with the backlog of cases in our courts, it takes that long to get through all the appeals. So you are still paying for 20 years in prison.

In this case especially, giving him the death penalty accomplishes nothing but "revenge". It will not scare future terrorists into submission.

I say it does not really matter one way or the other, and just let him rot in jail because that is the easier and less expensive thing to do. Our legal system is cluttered enough with nonsense. Just move on to the next case and be done with this one.

IMO life is prison is 10 times worse than the death penalty. I for one would rather be dead than go to jail.

i think this is the prison he's going to.

He may end up with the Jeffrey Dahmer sentence anyway. Better that he is not a made into a martyr...Would love to see the look on his face the day after they catch OBL and they shove the newspaper under his cell door.

A DP sentence means more headlines for him and his cause. His supporters would continue to rally around him. They don't fear death, they glorify it. The last thing he should get is the glory.

I heard a few interviews with family of 9/11 victims and they share this sentiment as well.

Throw him in a hole and let the press forget about him.

Instead of him being sent to his 73 virgins he'll be the virgin sent to 73 Bubbas. Don't drop the soap, Zach. Bwah-ha-ha-ha!

I am a proponent of the death penalty in very selective cases for reasons I am not trying to open up for debate. I am in agreement that this beast spend the rest of his natural life in Supermax and total isolation. As long as he doesn't get to write a manifesto, send messages to the media, paint pictures of sad clowns, or any other means of staying in touch with the outside world where he can still inspire like minded crazies, I'm satisfied with the sentence. I just hate seeing convicted criminals on death row or spending LWOP in prison become pseudo-celebs. It's disgusting.

I'm just glad his trial is over. Now I can go get a cheessteak for lunch at the deli next to the courthouse whenever I want!

FYI- the new DC Meet location is on the same street as the court where Moussaoui was tried, about a mile and a half east of it.

JV

Haha, I was going to let someone else take this one on. I believe in only starting about 5 serious discussions a week on the X5World boards :rofl: :rofl:

As for this loser, let him sit in jail but what is going to piss me off is the inevitable book that will be written as well as the countless bulls*it interviews I will have to hear about. Now if you locked him in solitary confinement...I'd be happy.

Yah we need a death row express lane IMO.

:iagree: no limitation on how many people on death row can be executed in one year.:tsk:

I don't agree with the life sentence that he got. They should have just put a bullet in his skull. Animals like him do not deserve to live on us taxpayers' money.

Bullet to the head is too fast. Done. I think justice is better served by letting him suffer in jail for what I hope will be a long life. Cage him up like an animal.

Do you realize how many times new evidence has become available in a case that caused someone to be freed after 10 years on death row? It happens quite often.

That is the one problem with executing people. Even one mistake is too many. It cannot be reversed. If someone is in prison, they can be freed. An executed prisoner cannot be brought back to life.

And the liberals come forth...

F&%# that..Send Lindie England in there to put him a pair of diapers and handcuffs and piss on 'em....

As Lumbergh would say in Office Space: "Ahh, I'm going to have to disagree with you there."

There are many, many open and shut cases where they clearly have convicted the right person.

There will never be new evidence for Joseph Smith http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/15/ta...ion/index.html. Smith is a human p.o.s. and the death penalty is appropriate. No, this is where the I show Liberals the door. Talk to me about not drilling in ANWAR, or wind farms, or saving hippos in the Congo, but child predators caught on videotape get the needle in the paw.

Carlie Brucia cannot be brought back to life either.

In order for a jury to impose the death sentence, they would have to think this is the case. If they are unsure, they would not impose the death penalty. In fact, if they are unsure, they are supposed to vote "not guilty" because there is "reasonable doubt".

Some of these "open & shut" cases have turned out to be mistakes. In some cases you have had police corruption where witnesses lied. In some cases you have just had mistaken identity -- someone looks very smiliar to someone else. It happens.

If you remember, a couple of years ago, the conservative Republican governor of Illinois pardoned over all 160 death row inmates in the state and had their sentences changed to life in prison after it was exposed that several past executions were mistakes. Even he realized that there was no way to be 100% sure.

As I understand it the inevitable book that will be written as well as the countless interviews will not be allowed. And the confinement he will face?

He then will be placed in a 7-by-12-foot cell where he will be confined for 23 hours a day. Inside the cell is a concrete bed, stool and desk as well as a toilet and a shower. A small slatted window allows some natural light.

For one hour each day, he will have a “recreation” period but still will be in chains and isolated.

"These guys will never be out of their cells, much less in the yard or anywhere around here," Russ Martin, the project manager for the Florence prison, told an interviewer.

Each cell is monitored by video surveillance and considered to provide a very isolated existence for anyone sentenced there. One convicted gang leader told a judge after being sentenced there: “You are sentencing me to die a little each day.”

Other Supermax residents include:
· Richard Reid, the “Shoe Bomber," was convicted of trying to blow up a plane en route from Miami to Paris soon after the Sept. 11 attacks.
· Ted Kaczynski, the “Unabomber”
· Terry Nichols, the Oklahoma City bombing co-conspirator
· Eric Rudolph, who was convicted for bombing abortion clinics
· Ramzi Yousef, Al Qaeda terrorist convicted of planning the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.

James Aiken, a former U.S. federal prison official and now a consultant, said during the Moussaoui trial that the convicted terrorist would "rot" at the Florence facility.

"They are in a security envelope, a security bubble. Their environment is sterile, they are isolated from the outside world and from the prison world," said Aiken, who gave evidence for the defense's case against the death penalty for the defendant.

"If a prisoner has a heart-attack, security protocol has to be followed before that lock may be opened and medical personnel can come in," Aiken explained.

"He doesn't know yet, but under such conditions," Aiken warned, "as time goes by they rot."

I hope that is true.

Quite a few funny (Bozo) responses. But I have a good idea. Why not just kill him now. If we kill him now, he can start eternaty in Hell early. Even hell is worse that CO prison.

As for the Liberal cracks (I am a republican BTW), yes there have been cases of the wrong guy being convicted. There is also a case of the wrong guy being convicted and set free only to kill some lady reporter too. Having said all that, most of these wrong convictions are not recent ones (maybe it takes 10-20 years to fix them) and I am sure that "CSI: South Dakota" will prevent any new ones.

For those who do not support the death penalty, to each their own. As for me, just release him on a national police holiday in New York City. That way, we can call it a senseless murder (er justice) instead of a "death penalty"

Article on MSN about the Admax:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12636492/
.....
"Anybody who thinks the death penalty was more punishment than this doesn't know what it's like to live completely alone for the rest of your life," Kleinman said. "If they really wanted to punish him, the death penalty might have made sense politically, but spending the rest of his life in the [Admax] is about the worst you could do to him."

The US has a couple Supermax prisons as does Australia. Those prisons are no joke, and if a person is a level I threat....life is horrible and they are probably wishing for death.

:iagree:

I see four angles on the sentence: Justice, Revenge, Politics and Deterrence.

The DP addresses revenge and arguably justice. IMO, there can be no justice served by any type of sentence in this case. What the DP doesn't achieve is deterrence. The DP will not deter people who are not afraid to die and glorify a death for their cause. It will only motivate them. Judging from the descriptions above, life imprisonment in a hell hole is more likely to be a deterrent.

Politically, you can't win either way.

Every study into crime prevention that has ever been done has concluded that there is no deterrent for the crime of murder. That is because rational people do not commit murder.

If the government announced tomorrow that murder was now legal and there would be no punishment, how many people would you go out and kill? If you are a normal human being, then your answer is probably zero. That is because normal people decide our actions mostly based on what we think is right and wrong, not because of the punishment.

Anyone who is messed up enough to take another life is not going to be swayed by the extremely small different between getting life in prison or the death penalty. I'm pretty sure either one is enough of a deterrent. The problem is that the murderer does not think they will get caught.

Take a look at the list of countries that have the death penalty, and then look at the list of countries with the highest or lowest murder rates. Then tell me if you think the death penalty helps to prevent murder. If anything, it sets a rather poor example for society.

But this is quite a different kettle of fish. You are talking about murder for monetary or personal reasons - crimes of passion or greed. I'm talking about murder (or terrorism) for political reasons - crimes that by nature require planning a forethought. If they must think to plan their crime, they just might think about the consequences at the same time.

Actually, I said the opposite. I don't think DP is a deterent. And as far as the stats for countries that don't have the DP, don't confuse cause with effect. They may not want the DP because their crime stats are good, not the other way around.

:iagree:

would I be out of order saying he should get a good kicking!

No, but you would need to take a number and wait patiently for your turn.

Seriously, there's more at stake here than personal satisfaction.

haha, reminds me of the scene in Airplane where the people line up to hit the chick.

if we could choose the type of punishment, give me pliers and a blowtorch and i'ma get medieval on his ass, a la Marsellus Wallace. I'll also need some sewing needles, toothpicks, and a pool stick. That would be more than personal satisfaction; it would be making him feel everything those poor souls in the twin towers felt, and then some.

Rikers
 

I think he should be placed at Rikers Island before, transferring.

If he was part of the general population, I bet he would get the treatment he deserves!

I wonder what would have happened to this guy:

Exonerated Death Row Inmate to Get $2.25M

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. May 5, 2006 (AP)— A federal jury on Friday awarded $2.25 million to a Virginia man who claimed a police investigator fabricated a rape and murder confession that sent him to death row.
Earl Washington Jr., who came within nine days of being executed, had sued the estate of the state police investigator, Curtis Reese Wilmore, who died in 1994. Jurors awarded Washington damages upon finding that Wilmore deliberately fabricated evidence that led to his conviction and death sentence.

"I feel great and happy," a smiling Washington said after the verdict.
Washington spent nearly 18 years in prison. He was pardoned in 2000 by then-Gov. Jim Gilmore after sophisticated DNA testing, unavailable at the time of the crime, linked a convicted rapist to the murder.