Al-Qaeda asks for WWIII to start. (rant)
 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ape/index.html

The usual blowhards out of Al-Qaeda called for a World War. World war with what? People strapping explosives to themselves, how exactly does that defeat another nations.....ARMY? As you can see by Lebanon right now, when a country really wants to do some damage and has real firepower, things change in days. Blowing yourself up in a train station just doesn't have the same effect as say a Howitzer barage on your capital. Just take a look at how Israel has effected the middle east. Lebanon is basically crying and saying why us yet I watched an Arab Embassador yesterday say that Hezbollah wasn't a terrorist organization (Lou Dobbs almost fell out of his chair on that one). I'm also trying to figure out the whole "Israel is bombing civilians" complaint. Well, if you didn't allow (yes allow) terrorists to build up weapons in your garage, maybe you wouldn't get shelled.

Some middle eastern countries are going on about the civilian casualties not realizing that Israel has been dealing with the occasional rocket barage for decades. Rockets hitting civilians. Remember that when a nation feels like it 'has' to win, civilians may pay the price. For instance Hiroshima in 1945, out of 255,000 people in the town an estimated 66,000 were killed (nearly 25% of the population).....by one weapon (est 3000 were killed out of 8 million in New York on 9/11 .0003% of the population). Now if terrorists organization really want to step up to that kind of warfare, feel free but they should know they'll lose.

IMO I consider blowing up a subway an act of violence against civilians, not blowing up a persons house containing rockets.

yeah cause they are so sane right?

Very, Very good points Wagner!

God they are so stupid it hurts, I hate war but I almost hate them more lol

I really hate war and don't approve of it, doesn't mean I think what they are doing is ok

Lets not forget the beginning of the Gulf War. The first thing Saddam Hussein did was launch scud missles at Israel. For what reason?
Because he knew that if Israel fired back, it would entice the other "Israel Hating" nations to join his fight against the U.S.

I say, Go Israel.. Protect yourself at ALL costs. They killed enough Jews during the Hollocaust. Fight and fight back. Bring a gun to a knife fight, it's the Chicgao way.

B

Good job Sean Connery (Untouchables)..they put one of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the mosque, I mean, morgue.

Good reading. I always love your political analysis on the middle east and i agree

Well "wrote", Ryan! :thumbup:

I came across this "Letter to the Editor" in our local paper this week. I think the following excerpt summarizes the elements of the conflict nicely. Unfortunately, many people fail to acknowledge the history of the situation or the simple goals of each side, destruction versus survival, when they're bashing one side or the other.

"...The Arabs’ idea of “peace” involves destroying Israel. The Palestinians could have had their own country in 1948. They rejected it. The final solution of the Arabs was to drive the Jews into the sea. Thankfully, they failed. For 58 years, slaughtering Jews has been more important to them.

The oil-rich, land-rich Arab countries have had 58 years to resettle the people displaced by the Arab invasions of Israel. They have not done it. Seventeen Arab countries have a total area of 9,314,656 square kilometers. That’s 448 times bigger than Israel’s tiny 20,770 square kilometers. For Arabs, the one small country that absolutely wants peace is the one they love to blame. The Palestinians can have a country any time they want. All they have to do is stop slaughtering Jews. That’s all.

If terrorist groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas disarm, peace settles in. If Israel disarms, the Jews are slaughtered...."

The simplest and clearest way of looking at it is that one side has always fought to destroy out of pure hatred, while the other side has always fought for the reason of survival.

In complete accord with Wagner and B&D.

Killing up to 60 people, most of them women and children.
 

“ ... On April 11, 1996, a series of shock waves rumbled through the Muslim world as a result of Israel's massive bombardment of Beirut and southern Lebanon, which Israel had by then been occupying for fourteen years. Known as "Operation of Grapes of Wrath," it was the first time Israel had attacked Beirut since Ariel Sharon's ill-fated 1982 invasion of Lebanon. According to Israeli writer Israel Shahak, the real purpose of the attack was to capture as much Lebanese territory as possible.

"It is quite obvious," wrote Shahak, "that the first and most important Israeli aim to be established in the 'Grapes of Wrath' is to establish its sovereignty over Lebanon -- to be exercised in a comparable manner to its control over the Gaza Strip."

Two days after it began, on April 13, ambulance driver Abbas Jiha from the village of Mansouri was busy rushing patients wounded in the fighting to a hospital in the town of Sidon. On his return to Mansouri, panic had broken out and explosions were taking place. People began pleading for him to take them to Sidon. Jiha quickly squeezed four of his children into his ambulance along with ten other people, including a family, and began driving toward Sidon.

Suddenly, an Israeli helicopter began chasing his ambulance. Minutes later, two missiles were fired, one of which exploded through the rear door, engulfing the vehicle in fire and smoke and hurling it sixty feet through the air. Thrown clear, Abbas Jiha began running toward the flaming heap of twisted metal. "My God, my God," he screamed, shaking his fist at the sky, "my family has gone." In all, six people were killed, including Jiha's nine year-old daughter and his wife.

Israeli officials later admitted the ambulance had been targeted but claimed, falsely, that the vehicle was owned by Hezbollah and was transporting one of the group's fighters. Jiha had no connection with terrorist groups, and the thought that Israel could target an ambulance packed with innocent people, including many children, outraged Muslims throughout the Middle East.

On April 18, one week into Operation Grapes of Wrath, a reporter for London's newspaper The Independent was traveling in southern Lebanon with a United Nations convoy. Robert Fisk, Britain's most highly decorated foreign correspondent, spent a quarter of a century covering the Middle East and was the recipient of the British International Journalist of the Year Award seven times, including for 1996. As the vehicles were approaching the small village of Qana, Fisk could hear the sound of artillery, he recalled.

The convoy had stopped at Qana that morning and noticed it was crowded with about eight hundred refugees. They had been transported there for their safety by armored UN vehicles from nearby villages that had come under Israeli bombardment. When the convoy finally arrived in Qana shortly after two in the afternoon, fire was everywhere and proximity shells were bursting in the air. Antipersonnel weapons designed to explode about two dozen feet above ground, they would shower down razor-sharp shrapnel, butchering anyone beneath.

"It was a massacre," wrote Fisk in a front-page story. "Israel's slaughter of civilians in this terrible 10-day offensive -- 206 by last night --- has been so cavalier, so ferocious, that not a Lebanese will forgive this massacre. There had been the ambulance attacked on Saturday, the sisters killed in Yohmor the day before, the 2-year old girl decapitated by an Israeli missile four days ago. And earlier yesterday, the Israelis had slaughtered a family of 12 -- the youngest was a four-day-old baby -- when Israeli helicopter pilots fired missiles into their home."

The Israeli government later claimed the attack on the UN refugee camp at Qana was a mistake. But a formal, top-level United Nations investigation came to a different conclusion. "It is unlikely" that Israeli gunners simply erred, said the report, and demanded that Israel pay $1.7 million in damages. "Contrary to repeated denials," said the report, "two Israeli helicopters and a remotely piloted vehicle were present in the Qana area at the time of the shelling." Amnesty International also conducted an investigation of the massacre, and they concluded "that the IDF [Israeli Defense Force} intentionally attacked the UN compound."

Arieh Shavit, a columnist for the Israeli daily newspaper Ha'aretz, noted: "How easily we killed them [in Qana] without shedding a tear. We did not denounce the crime, did not arrange for a legal clarification, because this time we tried to deny the abominable horror and move on." And the international edition of Time magazine noted, "Around the Middle East... Qana is already a byword for martydom. The southern Lebanese village figures as a shrine drawing up to 1,000 pilgrims a day: busloads of schoolchildren, Cabinet ministers from Beirut, even a daughter of Iran's President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. Black banners overlooking rows of graves decry the 'barbarity' of Israel."

While largely ignored by the American press, the massacre at Qana was front-page news in London, much of Europe, and throughout the Middle East, where the story continued for days. Already burning with hatred for America and Israel, the pictures of headless Arab babies and other grisly photographs that appeared throughout the media were likely the final shove, pushing bin Laden over the edge and leading him to dedicating his life to war against what he would call the Israeli - United States alliance. From then on, he would often use the massacre at Qana as a battle cry, and it would become the match lighting the fuse that would eventually lead to the World Trade Center on a Tuesday morning five years later....”

Let's face it, Isreal is as much a terrorist "state" as any other you had labeled as terrorist! (The Washington Note)

and ten years later ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228224.stm
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...535658,00.html


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ace+propaganda


:angryfire

Again, don't hide your 'fighters' and weapons in civilian towns and civilians wouldn't get killed. And IMO if killing 500 civilians is what it takes to have peace between countries of millions of people, while cold and saddening, it is necessary. If Israel really didn't care about killing Lebanons civilian population, there would not currently be a Lebanon on the map. Israel has more then enough US firepower to remove the country. Put that same firepower in others hands, like Iran, and what happens will not be nearly as responsible.

On propaganda speak, there was the latest story of the convoy of people and journalists out roaming around Lebanon to find people in remote villages. There was a report of how the convoy got hit by Israeli firepower. What was conveniently left out of the discussion was the fact that the convoy was warned by a roadblock prior to entering the area that Israel was actively shelling the region and roads. The group took the warning, but continued anyway.

When you're fighting a battle against people that hide within civilians, civilians will draw fire. This is what Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups rely on. They assume there is no way a country would take the heat for killing thousands of civilians in order to get the fighters. Then they use these civilian casualties to show how cruel the other party is.

If you would really like to look into how radicals in the middle east use propoganda on their citizens check out http://www.noniedarwish.com/.

Synopsis of Nonie Darwish's book:
"Why are so many Muslims embracing jihad and cheering for al-Qaeda and Hamas? Why are even the modern, secularized Arab states such as Egypt producing a generation of angry young extremists?

Nonie Darwish knows why. When she was eight, her father died while leading Fedayeen raids into Israel. Her family moved from Gaza back to Cairo, where they were honored as survivors of a “shahid”—a martyr for jihad. She grew up learning the same lessons as millions of Muslim children: to hate Jews, destroy Israel, oppose America, and submit to dictatorship.

But Darwish became increasingly appalled by the anger and hatred in her culture, and in 1978 she emigrated to America. Since 9/11 she has been lecturing and writing on behalf of moderate Arabs and Arab-Americans. Extremists have denounced her as an infidel and threatened her life.

In this fascinating book, she speaks out against the dark side of her native culture—women abused by Islamic traditions; the poor and uneducated mistreated by the elites; bribery and corruption as a way of life. Her former friends and neighbors blamed all the their troubles on Jews and Americans, but Darwish rejects their bigotry and calls for the Arab world to make peace with the West.

The only hope for the future, she writes, is for America to continue waging its War on Terror, seeding the Middle East with the values of democracy, respect for women, and tolerance for all religions. "

Look at all of you talking like you know something about war :mad:

Try living in that area for the last 60 years then well see if you'll still spread this propaganda bullshit the media is giving you.

Just exactly where was israel before the brittish gave a territory which wasnt theirs to the jews?

" Israel declared Jerusalem to be its capital. This however is controversial and is seen by some as a breach of international law. Most states refuse to accept the designation as lawful, and some continue to regard the 1948 capital, Tel Aviv, as the capital at present."

This is what america uses to generate profits. The holy war which has been going on for centuries.

Then we have people like wagnerx5 who seem to think they know what its like to be at war. Why dont you join the army? You get to meet interesting people and then kill them.That should be right down your alley!

Topaz, thin ice there buddy.

I think, if you read historical accounts (dating back 2000 years PLUS), the true land that the Israeli's occupied, was their land today.

Are you anti-Semitic? Are you Arab?

(Looking at the amount of $$$ we are spending in the region to clean up the bullshit that Arabs will not and the resulting deficit thereof doesn't seem to bring about any financial profits).....

I think Israel owns that land by default. and I think a lot of us will support this until OUR very death. Which is exactly what radical Islam believes:

EVERYONE WHO IS NOT MUSLIM IS AN INFIDEL.

ALL INFIDELS MUST DIE.

THEREFORE, EVERYONE WHO IS NOT MUSLIM MUST DIE.

(see, if a is to b, and b is to c, then a is to c).....

you are obviously ignorant of the Hamas Charter: http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

18 August 1988

"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"The Islamic world is on fire. Each of us should pour some water, no matter how little, to extinguish whatever one can without waiting for the others." (Sheikh Amjad al-Zahawi, of blessed memory).
Introduction
Praise be unto Allah, to whom we resort for help, and whose forgiveness, guidance and support we seek; Allah bless the Prophet and grant him salvation, his companions and supporters, and to those who carried out his message and adopted his laws - everlasting prayers and salvation as long as the earth and heaven will last. Hereafter:
O People:
Out of the midst of troubles and the sea of suffering, out of the palpitations of faithful hearts and cleansed arms; out of the sense of duty, and in response to Allah's command, the call has gone out rallying people together and making them follow the ways of Allah, leading them to have determined will in order to fulfill their role in life, to overcome all obstacles, and surmount the difficulties on the way. Constant preparation has continued and so has the readiness to sacrifice life and all that is precious for the sake of Allah.
Thus it was that the nucleus (of the movement) was formed and started to pave its way through the tempestuous sea of hopes and expectations, of wishes and yearnings, of troubles and obstacles, of pain and challenges, both inside and outside.
When the idea was ripe, the seed grew and the plant struck root in the soil of reality, away from passing emotions, and hateful haste. The Islamic Resistance Movement emerged to carry out its role through striving for the sake of its Creator, its arms intertwined with those of all the fighters for the liberation of Palestine. The spirits of its fighters meet with the spirits of all the fighters who have sacrificed their lives on the soil of Palestine, ever since it was conquered by the companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, and until this day.
This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.
Thus we see them coming on the horizon "and you shall learn about it hereafter" "Allah hath written, Verily I will prevail, and my apostles: for Allah is strong and mighty." (The Dispute - verse 21).
"Say to them, This is my way: I invite you to Allah, by an evident demonstration; both I and he who followeth me; and, praise be unto Allah! I am not an idolator." (Joseph - verse 107).
Hamas (means) strength and bravery -(according to) Al-Mua'jam al-Wasit: c1.

Ideological Starting-Points
Article One:

The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps.
Article Two:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Moslem Brotherhood in Palestine. Moslem Brotherhood Movement is a universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times. It is characterised by its deep understanding, accurate comprehension and its complete embrace of all Islamic concepts of all aspects of life, culture, creed, politics, economics, education, society, justice and judgement, the spreading of Islam, education, art, information, science of the occult and conversion to Islam.
Article Three:



The basic structure of the Islamic Resistance Movement consists of Moslems who have given their allegiance to Allah whom they truly worship, - "I have created the jinn and humans only for the purpose of worshipping" - who know their duty towards themselves, their families and country. In all that, they fear Allah and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors, so that they would rid the land and the people of their uncleanliness, vileness and evils.

"But we will oppose truth to vanity, and it shall confound the same; and behold, it shall vanish away." (Prophets - verse 18).

Article Four:

The Islamic Resistance Movement welcomes every Moslem who embraces its faith, ideology, follows its programme, keeps its secrets, and wants to belong to its ranks and carry out the duty. Allah will certainly reward such one.
Article Five:



Time extent of the Islamic Resistance Movement: By adopting Islam as its way of life, the Movement goes back to the time of the birth of the Islamic message, of the righteous ancestor, for Allah is its target, the Prophet is its example and the Koran is its constitution. Its extent in place is anywhere that there are Moslems who embrace Islam as their way of life everywhere in the globe. This being so, it extends to the depth of the earth and reaches out to the heaven.

"Dost thou not see how Allah putteth forth a parable; representing a good word, as a good tree, whose root is firmly fixed in the earth, and whose branches reach unto heaven; which bringeth forth its fruit in all seasons, by the will of its Lord? Allah propoundeth parables unto men, that they may be instructed." (Abraham - verses 24-25).

Article Six:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.


How excellent was the Moslem poet, Mohamed Ikbal, when he wrote:

"If faith is lost, there is no security and there is no life for him who does not adhere to religion. He who accepts life without religion, has taken annihilation as his companion for life."

Article Seven:

As a result of the fact that those Moslems who adhere to the ways of the Islamic Resistance Movement spread all over the world, rally support for it and its stands, strive towards enhancing its struggle, the Movement is a universal one. It is well-equipped for that because of the clarity of its ideology, the nobility of its aim and the loftiness of its objectives.
On this basis, the Movement should be viewed and evaluated, and its role be recognised. He who denies its right, evades supporting it and turns a blind eye to facts, whether intentionally or unintentionally, would awaken to see that events have overtaken him and with no logic to justify his attitude. One should certainly learn from past examples.


The injustice of next-of-kin is harder to bear than the smite of the Indian sword.

"We have also sent down unto thee the book of the Koran with truth, confirming that scripture which was revealed before it; and preserving the same safe from corruption. Judge therefore between them according to that which Allah hath revealed; and follow not their desires, by swerving from the truth which hath come unto thee. Unto every of you have we given a law, and an open path; and if Allah had pleased, he had surely made you one people; but he hath thought it fit to give you different laws, that he might try you in that which he hath given you respectively. Therefore strive to excel each other in good works; unto Allah shall ye all return, and then will he declare unto you that concerning which ye have disagreed." (The Table, verse 48).

The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Moslem Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Moslem Brotherhood in 1968 and after.


Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Article Eight:

Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.
Incentives and Objectives:
Article Nine:

The Islamic Resistance Movement found itself at a time when Islam has disappeared from life. Thus rules shook, concepts were upset, values changed and evil people took control, oppression and darkness prevailed, cowards became like tigers: homelands were usurped, people were scattered and were caused to wander all over the world, the state of justice disappeared and the state of falsehood replaced it. Nothing remained in its right place. Thus, when Islam is absent from the arena, everything changes. From this state of affairs the incentives are drawn.


As for the objectives: They are the fighting against the false, defeating it and vanquishing it so that justice could prevail, homelands be retrieved and from its mosques would the voice of the mu'azen emerge declaring the establishment of the state of Islam, so that people and things would return each to their right places and Allah is our helper.

"...and if Allah had not prevented men, the one by the other, verily the earth had been corrupted: but Allah is beneficient towards his creatures." (The Cow - verse 251).

Article Ten:

As the Islamic Resistance Movement paves its way, it will back the oppressed and support the wronged with all its might. It will spare no effort to bring about justice and defeat injustice, in word and deed, in this place and everywhere it can reach and have influence therein.
Strategies of the Islamic Resistance Movement: Palestine Is Isalmic aqf:
Article Eleven:

The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.


It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Moslems, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Moslems, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit. As for the real ownership of the land and the land itself, it should be consecrated for Moslem generations till Judgement Day. Those who are on the land, are there only to benefit from its fruit. This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void.

"Verily, this is a certain truth. Wherefore praise the name of thy Lord, the great Allah." (The Inevitable - verse 95).

Article Twelve:

Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem, male or female. A woman can go out to fight the enemy without her husband's permission, and so does the slave: without his master's permission.
Nothing of the sort is to be found in any other regime. This is an undisputed fact. If other nationalist movements are connected with materialistic, human or regional causes, nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement has all these elements as well as the more important elements that give it soul and life. It is connected to the source of spirit and the granter of life, hoisting in the sky of the homeland the heavenly banner that joins earth and heaven with a strong bond.


If Moses comes and throws his staff, both witch and magic are annulled.

"Now is the right direction manifestly distinguished from deceit: whoever therefore shall deny Tagut, and believe in Allah, he shall surely take hold with a strong handle, which shall not be broken; Allah is he who heareth and seeth." (The Cow - Verse 256).

Article Thirteen:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."


Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."

Article Fourteen:



The question of the liberation of Palestine is bound to three circles: the Palestinian circle, the Arab circle and the Islamic circle. Each of these circles has its role in the struggle against Zionism. Each has its duties, and it is a horrible mistake and a sign of deep ignorance to overlook any of these circles. Palestine is an Islamic land which has the first of the two kiblahs (direction to which Moslems turn in praying), the third of the holy (Islamic) sanctuaries, and the point of departure for Mohamed's midnight journey to the seven heavens (i.e. Jerusalem).

"Praise be unto him who transported his servant by night, from the sacred temple of Mecca to the farther temple of Jerusalem, the circuit of which we have blessed, that we might show him some of our signs; for Allah is he who heareth, and seeth." (The Night-Journey - verse 1).

Since this is the case, liberation of Palestine is then an individual duty for very Moslem wherever he may be. On this basis, the problem should be viewed. This should be realised by every Moslem.


The day the problem is dealt with on this basis, when the three circles mobilize their capabilities, the present state of affairs will change and the day of liberation will come nearer.

"Verily ye are stronger than they, by reason of the terror cast into their breasts from Allah. This, because they are not people of prudence." (The Emigration - verse 13).

Article Fifteen:

The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised. To do this requires the diffusion of Islamic consciousness among the masses, both on the regional, Arab and Islamic levels. It is necessary to instill the spirit of Jihad in the heart of the nation so that they would confront the enemies and join the ranks of the fighters.
It is necessary that scientists, educators and teachers, information and media people, as well as the educated masses, especially the youth and sheikhs of the Islamic movements, should take part in the operation of awakening (the masses). It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin). The Crusaders realised that it was impossible to defeat the Moslems without first having ideological invasion pave the way by upsetting their thoughts, disfiguring their heritage and violating their ideals. Only then could they invade with soldiers. This, in its turn, paved the way for the imperialistic invasion that made Allenby declare on entering Jerusalem: "Only now have the Crusades ended." General Guru stood at Salah el-Din's grave and said: "We have returned, O Salah el-Din." Imperialism has helped towards the strengthening of ideological invasion, deepening, and still does, its roots. All this has paved the way towards the loss of Palestine.


It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis. Palestine contains Islamic holy sites. In it there is al- Aqsa Mosque which is bound to the great Mosque in Mecca in an inseparable bond as long as heaven and earth speak of Isra` (Mohammed's midnight journey to the seven heavens) and Mi'raj (Mohammed's ascension to the seven heavens from Jerusalem).

"The bond of one day for the sake of Allah is better than the world and whatever there is on it. The place of one's whip in Paradise is far better than the world and whatever there is on it. A worshipper's going and coming in the service of Allah is better than the world and whatever there is on it." (As related by al-Bukhari, Moslem, al-Tarmdhi and Ibn Maja).

"I swear by the holder of Mohammed's soul that I would like to invade and be killed for the sake of Allah, then invade and be killed, and then invade again and be killed." (As related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Article Sixteen:



It is necessary to follow Islamic orientation in educating the Islamic generations in our region by teaching the religious duties, comprehensive study of the Koran, the study of the Prophet's Sunna (his sayings and doings), and learning about Islamic history and heritage from their authentic sources. This should be done by specialised and learned people, using a curriculum that would healthily form the thoughts and faith of the Moslem student. Side by side with this, a comprehensive study of the enemy, his human and financial capabilities, learning about his points of weakness and strength, and getting to know the forces supporting and helping him, should also be included. Also, it is important to be acquainted with the current events, to follow what is new and to study the analysis and commentaries made of these events. Planning for the present and future, studying every trend appearing, is a must so that the fighting Moslem would live knowing his aim, objective and his way in the midst of what is going on around him.

"O my son, verily every matter, whether good or bad, though it be the weight of a grain of mustard-seed, and be hidden in a rock, or in the heavens, or in the earth, Allah will bring the same to light; for Allah is clear-sighted and knowing. O my son, be constant at prayer, and command that which is just, and forbid that which is evil: and be patient under the afflictions which shall befall thee; for this is a duty absolutely incumbent on all men. Distort not thy face out of contempt to men, neither walk in the earth with insolence; for Allah loveth no arrogant, vain-glorious person." (Lokman - verses 16-18).

Article Seventeen:

The Moslem woman has a role no less important than that of the moslem man in the battle of liberation. She is the maker of men. Her role in guiding and educating the new generations is great. The enemies have realised the importance of her role. They consider that if they are able to direct and bring her up they way they wish, far from Islam, they would have won the battle. That is why you find them giving these attempts constant attention through information campaigns, films, and the school curriculum, using for that purpose their lackeys who are infiltrated through Zionist organizations under various names and shapes, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, espionage groups and others, which are all nothing more than cells of subversion and saboteurs. These organizations have ample resources that enable them to play their role in societies for the purpose of achieving the Zionist targets and to deepen the concepts that would serve the enemy. These organizations operate in the absence of Islam and its estrangement among its people. The Islamic peoples should perform their role in confronting the conspiracies of these saboteurs. The day Islam is in control of guiding the affairs of life, these organizations, hostile to humanity and Islam, will be obliterated.
Article Eighteen:

Woman in the home of the fighting family, whether she is a mother or a sister, plays the most important role in looking after the family, rearing the children and embuing them with moral values and thoughts derived from Islam. She has to teach them to perform the religious duties in preparation for the role of fighting awaiting them. That is why it is necessary to pay great attention to schools and the curriculum followed in educating Moslem girls, so that they would grow up to be good mothers, aware of their role in the battle of liberation.


She has to be of sufficient knowledge and understanding where the performance of housekeeping matters are concerned, because economy and avoidance of waste of the family budget, is one of the requirements for the ability to continue moving forward in the difficult conditions surrounding us. She should put before her eyes the fact that the money available to her is just like blood which should never flow except through the veins so that both children and grown-ups could continue to live.

"Verily, the Moslems of either sex, and the true believers of either sex, and the devout men, and the devout women, and the men of veracity, and the women of veracity, and the patient men, and the patient women, and the humble men, and the humble women, and the alms-givers of either sex who remember Allah frequently; for them hath Allah prepared forgiveness and a great reward." (The Confederates - verse 25).

Article Nineteen:

Art has regulations and measures by which it can be determined whether it is Islamic or pre-Islamic (Jahili) art. The issues of Islamic liberation are in need of Islamic art that would take the spirit high, without raising one side of human nature above the other, but rather raise all of them harmoniously an in equilibrium.
Man is a unique and wonderful creature, made out of a handful of clay and a breath from Allah. Islamic art addresses man on this basis, while pre-Islamic art addresses the body giving preference to the clay component in it.
The book, the article, the bulletin, the sermon, the thesis, the popular poem, the poetic ode, the song, the play and others, contain the characteristics of Islamic art, then these are among the requirements of ideological mobilization, renewed food for the journey and recreation for the soul. The road is long and suffering is plenty. The soul will be bored, but Islamic art renews the energies, resurrects the movement, arousing in them lofty meanings and proper conduct. "Nothing can improve the self if it is in retreat except shifting from one mood to another."
All this is utterly serious and no jest, for those who are fighters do not jest.
Article Twenty:

Moslem society is a mutually responsible society. The Prophet, prayers and greetings be unto him, said: "Blessed are the generous, whether they were in town or on a journey, who have collected all that they had and shared it equally among themselves."
The Islamic spirit is what should prevail in every Moslem society. The society that confronts a vicious enemy which acts in a way similar to Nazism, making no differentiation between man and woman, between children and old people - such a society is entitled to this Islamic spirit. Our enemy relies on the methods of collective punishment. He has deprived people of their homeland and properties, pursued them in their places of exile and gathering, breaking bones, shooting at women, children and old people, with or without a reason. The enemy has opened detention camps where thousands and thousands of people are thrown and kept under sub-human conditions. Added to this, are the demolition of houses, rendering children orphans, meting cruel sentences against thousands of young people, and causing them to spend the best years of their lives in the dungeons of prisons.
In their Nazi treatment, the Jews made no exception for women or children. Their policy of striking fear in the heart is meant for all. They attack people where their breadwinning is concerned, extorting their money and threatening their honour. They deal with people as if they were the worst war criminals. Deportation from the homeland is a kind of murder.
To counter these deeds, it is necessary that social mutual responsibility should prevail among the people. The enemy should be faced by the people as a single body which if one member of it should complain, the rest of the body would respond by feeling the same pains.
Article Twenty-One:

Mutual social responsibility means extending assistance, financial or moral, to all those who are in need and joining in the execution of some of the work. Members of the Islamic Resistance Movement should consider the interests of the masses as their own personal interests. They must spare no effort in achieving and preserving them. They must prevent any foul play with the future of the upcoming generations and anything that could cause loss to society. The masses are part of them and they are part of the masses. Their strength is theirs, and their future is theirs. Members of the Islamic Resistance Movement should share the people's joy and grief, adopt the demands of the public and whatever means by which they could be realised. The day that such a spirit prevails, brotherliness would deepen, cooperation, sympathy and unity will be enhanced and the ranks will be solidified to confront the enemies.
Supportive Forces Behind the Enemy:
Article Twenty-Two:

For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realisation of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.


You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in it.

"So often as they shall kindle a fire for war, Allah shall extinguish it; and they shall set their minds to act corruptly in the earth, but Allah loveth not the corrupt doers." (The Table - verse 64).

The imperialistic forces in the Capitalist West and Communist East, support the enemy with all their might, in money and in men. These forces take turns in doing that. The day Islam appears, the forces of infidelity would unite to challenge it, for the infidels are of one nation.

"O true believers, contract not an intimate friendship with any besides yourselves: they will not fail to corrupt you. They wish for that which may cause you to perish: their hatred hath already appeared from out of their mouths; but what their breasts conceal is yet more inveterate. We have already shown you signs of their ill will towards you, if ye understand." (The Family of Imran - verse 118).

It is not in vain that the verse is ended with Allah's words "if ye understand."
A. Islamic Movements:
Article Twenty-Three:

The Islamic Resistance Movement views other Islamic movements with respect and appreciation. If it were at variance with them on one point or opinion, it is in agreement with them on other points and understandings. It considers these movements, if they reveal good intentions and dedication to Allah, that they fall into the category of those who are trying hard since they act within the Islamic circle. Each active person has his share.


The Islamic Resistance Movement considers all these movements as a fund for itself. It prays to Allah for guidance and directions for all and it spares no effort to keep the banner of unity raised, ever striving for its realisation in accordance with the Koran and the Prophet's directives.

"And cleave all of you unto the covenant of Allah, and depart not from it, and remember the favour of Allah towards you: since ye were enemies, and he reconciled your hearts, and ye became companions and brethren by his favour: and ye were on the brink of a pit of fire, and he delivered you thence. Allah declareth unto you his signs, that ye may be directed." (The Family of Imran - Verse 102).

Article Twenty-Four:



The Islamic Resistance Movement does not allow slandering or speaking ill of individuals or groups, for the believer does not indulge in such malpractices. It is necessary to differentiate between this behaviour and the stands taken by certain individuals and groups. Whenever those stands are erroneous, the Islamic Resistance Movement preserves the right to expound the error and to warn against it. It will strive to show the right path and to judge the case in question with objectivity. Wise conduct is indeed the target of the believer who follows it wherever he discerns it.

"Allah loveth not the speaking ill of anyone in public, unless he who is injured call for assistance; and Allah heareth and knoweth: whether ye publish a good action, or conceal it, or forgive evil, verily Allah is gracious and powerful." (Women - verses 147-148).

Article Twenty-Five:

The Islamic Resistance Movement respects these movements and appreciates their circumstances and the conditions surrounding and affecting them. It encourages them as long as they do not give their allegiance to the Communist East or the Crusading West. It confirms to all those who are integrated in it, or sympathetic towards it, that the Islamic Resistance Movement is a fighting movement that has a moral and enlightened look of life and the way it should cooperate with the other (movements). It detests opportunism and desires only the good of people, individuals and groups alike. It does not seek material gains, personal fame, nor does it look for a reward from others. It works with its own resources and whatever is at its disposal "and prepare for them whatever force you can", for the fulfilment of the duty, and the earning of Allah's favour. It has no other desire than that.
The Movement assures all the nationalist trends operating in the Palestinian arena for the liberation of Palestine, that it is there for their support and assistance. It will never be more than that, both in words and deeds, now and in the future. It is there to bring together and not to divide, to preserve and not to squander, to unify and not to throw asunder. It evaluates every good word, sincere effort and good offices. It closes the door in the face of side disagreements and does not lend an ear to rumours and slanders, while at the same time fully realising the right for self-defence.


Anything contrary or contradictory to these trends, is a lie disseminated by enemies or their lackeys for the purpose of sowing confusion, disrupting the ranks and occupy them with side issues.

"O true believers, if a wicked man come unto you with a tale, inquire strictly into the truth thereof; lest ye hurt people through ignorance, and afterwards repent of what ye have done." (The Inner Apartments - verse 6).

Article Twenty-Six:

In viewing the Palestinian nationalist movements that give allegiance neither to the East nor the West, in this positive way, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not refrain from discussing new situations on the regional or international levels where the Palestinian question is concerned. It does that in such an objective manner revealing the extent of how much it is in harmony or contradiction with the national interests in the light of the Islamic point of view.
Article Twenty-Seven:

The Palestinian Liberation Organization is the closest to the heart of the Islamic Resistance Movement. It contains the father and the brother, the next of kin and the friend. The Moslem does not estrange himself from his father, brother, next of kin or friend. Our homeland is one, our situation is one, our fate is one and the enemy is a joint enemy to all of us.
Because of the situations surrounding the formation of the Organization, of the ideological confusion prevailing in the Arab world as a result of the ideological invasion under whose influence the Arab world has fallen since the defeat of the Crusaders and which was, and still is, intensified through orientalists, missionaries and imperialists, the Organization adopted the idea of the secular state. And that it how we view it.
Secularism completely contradicts religious ideology. Attitudes, conduct and decisions stem from ideologies.


That is why, with all our appreciation for The Palestinian Liberation Organization - and what it can develop into - and without belittling its role in the Arab-Israeli conflict, we are unable to exchange the present or future Islamic Palestine with the secular idea. The Islamic nature of Palestine is part of our religion and whoever takes his religion lightly is a loser.

"Who will be adverse to the religion of Abraham, but he whose mind is infatuated? (The Cow - verse 130).

The day The Palestinian Liberation Organization adopts Islam as its way of life, we will become its soldiers, and fuel for its fire that will burn the enemies.


Until such a day, and we pray to Allah that it will be soon, the Islamic Resistance Movement's stand towards the PLO is that of the son towards his father, the brother towards his brother, and the relative to relative, suffers his pain and supports him in confronting the enemies, wishing him to be wise and well-guided.

"Stand by your brother, for he who is brotherless is like the fighter who goes to battle without arms. One's cousin is the wing one flies with - could the bird fly without wings?"

Article Twenty-Eight:

The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion. It does not refrain from resorting to all methods, using all evil and contemptible ways to achieve its end. It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion.
Arab countries surrounding Israel are asked to open their borders before the fighters from among the Arab and Islamic nations so that they could consolidate their efforts with those of their Moslem brethren in Palestine.
As for the other Arab and Islamic countries, they are asked to facilitate the movement of the fighters from and to it, and this is the least thing they could do.
We should not forget to remind every Moslem that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that "Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women."
Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."


The Islamic Resistance Movement hopes that all these groupings will side with it in all spheres, would support it, adopt its stand and solidify its activities and moves, work towards rallying support for it so that the Islamic people will be a base and a stay for it, supplying it with strategic depth an all human material and informative spheres, in time and in place. This should be done through the convening of solidarity conferences, the issuing of explanatory bulletins, favourable articles and booklets, enlightening the masses regarding the Palestinian issue, clarifying what confronts it and the conspiracies woven around it. They should mobilize the Islamic nations, ideologically, educationally and culturally, so that these peoples would be equipped to perform their role in the decisive battle of liberation, just as they did when they vanquished the Crusaders and the Tatars and saved human civilization. Indeed, that is not difficult for Allah.

"Allah hath written, Verily I will prevail, and my apostles: for Allah is strong and mighty." (The Dispute - verse 21).

Article Thirty:

Writers, intellectuals, media people, orators, educaters and teachers, and all the various sectors in the Arab and Islamic world - all of them are called upon to perform their role, and to fulfill their duty, because of the ferocity of the Zionist offensive and the Zionist influence in many countries exercised through financial and media control, as well as the consequences that all this lead to in the greater part of the world.


Jihad is not confined to the carrying of arms and the confrontation of the enemy. The effective word, the good article, the useful book, support and solidarity - together with the presence of sincere purpose for the hoisting of Allah's banner higher and higher - all these are elements of the Jihad for Allah's sake.

"Whosoever mobilises a fighter for the sake of Allah is himself a fighter. Whosoever supports the relatives of a fighter, he himself is a fighter." (related by al-Bukhari, Moslem, Abu-Dawood and al-Tarmadhi).

Article Thirty-One:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement. It takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions. It does not antagonize anyone of them except if it is antagonized by it or stands in its way to hamper its moves and waste its efforts.
Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that.


It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror. Everyone of them is at variance with his fellow-religionists, not to speak about followers of other religionists. Past and present history are full of examples to prove this fact.

"They will not fight against you in a body, except in fenced towns, or from behind walls. Their strength in war among themselves is great: thou thinkest them to be united; but their hearts are divided. This, because they are people who do not understand." (The Emigration - verse 14).

Islam confers upon everyone his legitimate rights. Islam prevents the incursion on other people's rights. The Zionist Nazi activities against our people will not last for long. "For the state of injustice lasts but one day, while the state of justice lasts till Doomsday."

"As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly." (The Tried - verse 8).

Article Thirty-Two:

World Zionism, together with imperialistic powers, try through a studied plan and an intelligent strategy to remove one Arab state after another from the circle of struggle against Zionism, in order to have it finally face the Palestinian people only. Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of the struggle, through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. They are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements and to bring them outside the circle of struggle.
The Islamic Resistance Movement calls on Arab and Islamic nations to take up the line of serious and persevering action to prevent the success of this horrendous plan, to warn the people of the danger eminating from leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.
Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who does that. "for whoso shall turn his back unto them on that day, unless he turneth aside to fight, or retreateth to another party of the faithful, shall draw on himself the indignation of Allah, and his abode shall be hell; an ill journey shall it be thither." (The Spoils - verse 16). There is no way out except by concentrating all powers and energies to face this Nazi, vicious Tatar invasion. The alternative is loss of one's country, the dispersion of citizens, the spread of vice on earth and the destruction of religious values. Let every person know that he is responsible before Allah, for "the doer of the slightest good deed is rewarded in like, and the does of the slightest evil deed is also rewarded in like."


The Islamic Resistance Movement consider itself to be the spearhead of the circle of struggle with world Zionism and a step on the road. The Movement adds its efforts to the efforts of all those who are active in the Palestinian arena. Arab and Islamic Peoples should augment by further steps on their part; Islamic groupings all over the Arab world should also do the same, since all of these are the best-equipped for the future role in the fight with the warmongering Jews.

"..and we have put enmity and hatred between them, until the day of resurrection. So often as they shall kindle a fire of war, Allah shall extinguish it; and they shall set their minds to act corruptly in the earth, but Allah loveth not the corrupt doers." (The Table - verse 64).

Article Thirty-Three:



The Islamic Resistance Movement, being based on the common coordinated and interdependent conceptions of the laws of the universe, and flowing in the stream of destiny in confronting and fighting the enemies in defence of the Moslems and Islamic civilization and sacred sites, the first among which is the Aqsa Mosque, urges the Arab and Islamic peoples, their governments, popular and official groupings, to fear Allah where their view of the Islamic Resistance Movement and their dealings with it are concerned. They should back and support it, as Allah wants them to, extending to it more and more funds till Allah's purpose is achieved when ranks will close up, fighters join other fighters and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty while loudly proclaiming: Hail to Jihad. Their cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.

"And Allah will certainly assist him who shall be on his side: for Allah is strong and mighty." (The Pilgrimage - verse 40).

Article Thirty-Four:

Palestine is the navel of the globe and the crossroad of the continents. Since the dawn of history, it has been the target of expansionists. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, had himself pointed to this fact in the noble Hadith in which he called on his honourable companion, Ma'adh ben-Jabal, saying: O Ma'ath, Allah throw open before you, when I am gone, Syria, from Al-Arish to the Euphrates. Its men, women and slaves will stay firmly there till the Day of Judgement. Whoever of you should choose one of the Syrian shores, or the Holy Land, he will be in constant struggle till the Day of Judgement."


Expansionists have more than once put their eye on Palestine which they attacked with their armies to fulfill their designs on it. Thus it was that the Crusaders came with their armies, bringing with them their creed and carrying their Cross. They were able to defeat the Moslems for a while, but the Moslems were able to retrieve the land only when they stood under the wing of their religious banner, united their word, hallowed the name of Allah and surged out fighting under the leadership of Salah ed-Din al-Ayyubi. They fought for almost twenty years and at the end the Crusaders were defeated and Palestine was liberated.

"Say unto those who believe not, Ye shall be overcome, and thrown together into hell; an unhappy couch it shall be." (The Family of Imran - verse 12).

This is the only way to liberate Palestine. There is no doubt about the testimony of history. It is one of the laws of the universe and one of the rules of existence. Nothing can overcome iron except iron. Their false futile creed can only be defeated by the righteous Islamic creed. A creed could not be fought except by a creed, and in the last analysis, victory is for the just, for justice is certainly victorious.

"Our word hath formerly been given unto our servants the apostles; that they should certainly be assisted against the infidels, and that our armies should surely be the conquerors." (Those Who Rank Themselves - verses 171-172).

Article Thirty-Five:

The Islamic Resistance Movement views seriously the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah ed-Din al-Ayyubi and the rescuing of Palestine from their hands, as well as the defeat of the Tatars at Ein Galot, breaking their power at the hands of Qataz and Al-Dhaher Bivers and saving the Arab world from the Tatar onslaught which aimed at the destruction of every meaning of human civilization. The Movement draws lessons and examples from all this. The present Zionist onslaught has also been preceded by Crusading raids from the West and other Tatar raids from the East. Just as the Moslems faced those raids and planned fighting and defeating them, they should be able to confront the Zionist invasion and defeat it. This is indeed no problem for the Almighty Allah, provided that the intentions are pure, the determination is true and that Moslems have benefited from past experiences, rid themselves of the effects of ideological invasion and followed the customs of their ancestors.
Article Thirty-Six:

While paving its way, the Islamic Resistance Movement, emphasizes time and again to all the sons of our people, to the Arab and Islamic nations, that it does not seek personal fame, material gain, or social prominence. It does not aim to compete against any one from among our people, or take his place. Nothing of the sort at all. It will not act against any of the sons of Moslems or those who are peaceful towards it from among non-Moslems, be they here or anywhere else. It will only serve as a support for all groupings and organizations operating against the Zionist enemy and its lackeys.


The Islamic Resistance Movement adopts Islam as its way of life. Islam is its creed and religion. Whoever takes Islam as his way of life, be it an organization, a grouping, a country or any other body, the Islamic Resistance Movement considers itself as their soldiers and nothing more.

We ask Allah to show us the right course, to make us an example to others and to judge between us and our people with truth. "O Lord, do thou judge between us and our nation with truth; for thou art the best judge." (Al Araf - Verse 89).

The last of our prayers will be praise to Allah, the Master of the Universe.






and to think that there exist some true arabs who are persecuted for their views:

Who Are We?
We are Arabs and Moslems who believe…

• We can support Israel and still support the Palestinian people. Supporting one does not cancel support for the other.
• We can support the State of Israel and the Jewish religion and still treasure our Arab and Islamic culture.
• There are many Jews and Israelis who freely express compassion and support for the Palestinians. It is time that we Arabs express reciprocal compassion and support.
• The existence of the State of Israel is a fact that should be accepted by the Arab world.
• Israel is a legitimate state that is not a threat but an asset in the Middle East.
• Every major World religion has a center of gravity. Islam has Mecca, and Judaism certainly deserves its presence in Israel and Jerusalem.
• Diversity should not be a virtue only in the USA, but should be encouraged around the world. We support a diverse Middle East with protection for human rights, respect and equality under the law to all minorities including Jews and Christians.
• Palestinians have several options but are deprived from exercising them because of their leadership, the Arab League and surrounding Arab and Moslem countries who do not want to see Palestinians live in harmony with Israel.
• If Palestinians want democracy they can start practicing it now.
• Arabs must end the boycott of Israel.
• We stand firmly against suicide/homicide terrorism as a form of Jihad.
• We are appalled by the horrific act of terror against the USA on 9/11/2001.
• Arab media should end the incitement and misinformation that result in Arab street rage and violence.
• We are eager to see major reformation in how Islam is taught and channeled to bring out the best in Moslems and contribute to the uplifting of the human spirit and advancement of civilization.
• We believe in freedom to choose or change one’s Religion.
• We cherish and acknowledge the beauty and contributions of the Middle East culture, but recognize that the Arab/Moslem world is in desperate need of constructive self-criticism and reform.

We are NOT:

• Anti-Islam, Anti-Arab, confrontational or hateful.

We remember with deep sadness and respect the brave Arabs, known and unknown, who were killed or severely punished for promoting peace with Israel; a special thanks to President Anwar Sadat of Egypt who was killed at the hands of Militant and Radical Islamists after he signed the peace treaty with Israel.
We salute and commend Arab and Moslem writers, scholars and speakers, who found the strength, commitment and honesty in their hearts to speak out in support of Israel. We thank you for being the pioneers that you are and for holding such sophisticated and advanced views in the realm of Arab and Moslem thinking. You are inspiring us all. ARABS AND MOSLEMS WHO WISH TO POST THEIR VIEWS IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL CAN DO SO BY EMAILING US. WE WILL THEN POST THEM ANONYMOUSLY, IF THEY WISH. Please send all correspondence to: [email protected]

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

Topas...Wow, that was nice and pointless...although the Full Metal Jacket reference was the best part of the commentary.

It seems that the Written Charter of Hamas is very similar to another document:


The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party


1 We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.
2 We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.
3 We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.
4 Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.
5 Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.
6 The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.
We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favour of the party without regard to character and fitness.
7 We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.
8 Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.
9 All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.
10 The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
Therefore we demand:
11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries.
15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
16 We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalisation of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.
17 We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.
18 We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.
19 We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
20 In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.
21 The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centres, by prohibiting juvenile labour, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.
22 We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.
23 We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:
(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.
(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.
(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.
Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.
24 We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.
The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the principle:
COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD
25 In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.
The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.
The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.




--------------------------



Hmmmmmmmmm.


I think any people or persons who write or ascribe, affirm, believe or support any of the above documents, MUST, for the GOOD of the SPECIES and the HUMAN RACE, be obliterated from the face of the Earth.

Pss........i Hate Muslims And I Draw Mohamed Cartoons.

What is Hezbollah and what are its goals?

The core of the Hezbollah organization (also spelled Hizballah, Hezbullah and other variants, meaning 'Party of God') in Lebanon comes from 'Iranian Revolutionary Guards' sent to Lebanon in 1982, at the time of Israel's invasion of Southern Lebanaon designed to oust the PLO. They went to assist in the establishment of a revolutionary Islamic movement whose members would participate in the 'Jihad', Holy War, against Israel from bases in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley. Inspired by the success of the Iranian Revolution and establishment of an Islamic Republic in Iran, Hezbollah also dreamt of transforming Lebanon's multi-religion state into an Iranian-style Islamic state. Its ideology, as expressed in declarations by its leadership, maintained that Israel had no legitimacy as a state, and that it must be fought until Jerusalem, meaning all of Israel, is liberated.
Following the IDF withdrawal from Lebanon in 1985 the Hezbollah organization consolidated itself by establishing storage depots for weapons, recruiting activists and fighters, and providing widespread aid to residents in South Lebanon, such as the donation of money, equipment, and medical supplies. The aid programs helped Hezbollah gain the support of the local population in favor of the organization's activities against Israel.
Using cover names such as 'Islamic Jihad', 'The Revolutionary Justice Organization' and 'The Islamic Resistance', with the blessings of its religious leaders, Hezbollah has carried out a series of high profile attacks against Israeli targets in southern Lebanon and American and Multinational Forces targets in Lebanon. Hezbollah was responsible for the two explosions in Beirut on October 23, 1983 that killed 241 American Marines and 56 French servicemen sleeping in their barracks. Their attacks became more intensive as well as demonstrating better planning immediately prior to the opening of the peace process in 1991.
In 1991, the Hezbollah was responsible for 52 attacks, as compared to 19 attacks the organization carried out in 1990. In 1992, the Hezbollah launched 63 attacks and in 1993, 158 attacks, when during the course of 'Operation Accountability' they fired hundreds of Katyusha rockets into the Security Zone and Israeli territory. In 1994 a total of 187 attacks against Israeli troops and positions by Hezbollah were recorded. There were 119 instances of artillery fire, 31 detonations of explosive charges and two frontal assaults on IDF positions. In 1995 a total of 344 attacks against Israeli troops and positions by were recorded. There were 270 instances of artillery fire, 64 detonations of explosive charges and 2 frontal assaults on IDF positions.
Hezbollah did not confine the slaughter to Israel and Lebanon. The bloodshed included multiple bombings in Argentina of Israeli and Jewish community facilities, one in Buenos Aires, March 1992 that killed 29 and another in July 1994 that killed 96. [At the time this last event was one of the worst terrorist attacks ever in the Western hemisphere.] Hezbollah is also credited with blowing up a Panamanian airplane in flight.
After the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah announced its intentions to continue to struggle against Israel as a second front supporting the Palestinian Arabs. In March 2002, as Israel carried out its Operation Defensive Shield, Hezbollah increased its cross-border attacks from Lebanon.
Over its two decades, Hezbollah has evolved into a movement with thousands of trained guerrillas, members of the Lebanese parliament and a dynamic welfare program benefiting thousands of Lebanese people. They enjoy considerable support in Lebanon both because their rage against Israel is popular and because their social programs are effective in meeting ground level needs. Since Israel is no longer present in Lebanon, Hezbollah now talks about the elimination of Israel itself calling all of Israel "occupied territory" that has to be "liberated" for Islam.
Hezbollah continues to receive substantial amounts of financial, training, weapons, explosives, political, diplomatic, and organizational aid from Iran and Syria. Hezbollah has also benefited from criminal activity in the US developed as a source of funds.
In the summer of 2002 there were indications that Hezbollah was assisting al Qaeda (the organization, headed by Usama Bin Laden, that attacked the United States on September 11, 2001). Despite religious differences — the Iranian-originated Hezbollah is Shiite, while bin Laden and al Qaeda are Sunni — the two groups have coordinated on a practical level for years. After their loss of control of Afghanistan, al Qaeda began showing up in Lebanon with hints that Lebanon may be their new base of operations, aided and abetted by Hezbollah.
Sources and additional reading on this topic:

• Hizballah (Party of God)
• The Israel-Hezbollah war
• The Hezbollah in America: An Alarming Network
• Whitewashing Hezbullah
• The New Front: An ominous alliance in Lebanon
• Hell on Earth: The Other Occupied Territory
• New Yorker bests Times on anti-Semitism

I dont expect any of you to understand what i am trying to say! And it's anti-semetic not semitic.
Are you Jewish? Are you anti-islamist?

I have read many historical accounts and i come from the region so what's your point? What do you know that i dont? Nothing!
Using your logic drex does'nt this land belong to the aboriginals so by default the americas belong to them?

I am armenian by the way and my people have faced the same attrocities as the jews and we lost the majority of our land in the genocide (at the hands of muslim turks) which has not been aknowledged by the international community for almost a hundred years because of international pressures.We we're the first people to adopt christianity. Who has helped us? And what makes the jews so special?

And what's the bullshit that the arabs wont clean-up? What does that mean?
The mess the united states helped spread all over the middle east?
And beleive me the U.S. will capitalize on this investment in the future so dont be an idiot and call me ignorant.

You all have a very one sided view and opinion on the issue.

I dont support either side of the war and i dont support people voicing opinions that have no foundation other than what they've heard and seen on tv or read on the internet.

It's just like the katrina incident on this website you all think you have the right to speak about innocent people losing their lives and justifying it in a disgusting and disgraceful manner.

I may be ignorant on many of the issues but at least i can see both sides of them.

So for me you are ignorant.

Wow Drex you are really proficient in copying and pasting information!:rolleyes:

Any ideas of your own on the subject? Or are you just falling in line with the rest of america?

:iagree:

Ignorant how? There is very little 'one sided' about any political or global situation discussions on this forum. Seems as though your posts to this topic have no real commentary aside from telling others not to speak. As you said you have no side in the discussion, so why comment to others about them being one sided? Your response to Drex, who posted a great deal of factual information, was, IMO, ridiculous. Your other comments about not wanting to hear about opinions based on research is ridiculous as well. The genocide you spoke of occurred between 1915-1918 and early 1920's, so unless you are roughly 90 years old, you didn't have a first hand account of any of this, simply researched it as you denounce others from commenting to. And in fact the allies, including the USA, required the Ottoman Empire to hold the Young Turks accountable to war crimes.

Any issue as far as Israel is concerned in relation to Armenia should be taken up with Turkey who still dismisses the notion of a genocide in Armenia at all, much like Iran doubting the Jews in Germany.

Armenian Genocide:
---
The atrocities committed against the Armenian people of the Ottoman Empire during W.W.I are called the Armenian Genocide. Genocide is the organized killing of a people for the express purpose of putting an end to their collective existence. Because of its scope, genocide requires central planning and a machinery to implement it. This makes genocide the quintessential state crime as only a government has the resources to carry out such a scheme of destruction. The Armenian Genocide was centrally planned and administered by the Turkish government against the entire Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire. It was carried out during W.W.I between the years 1915 and 1918. The Armenian people was subjected to deportation, expropriation, abduction, torture, massacre, and starvation. The great bulk of the Armenian population was forcibly removed from Armenia and Anatolia to Syria, where the vast majority was sent into the desert to die of thirst and hunger. Large numbers of Armenians were methodically massacred throughout the Ottoman Empire. Women and children were abducted and horribly abused. The entire wealth of the Armenian people was expropriated. After only a little more than a year of calm at the end of W.W.I, the atrocities were renewed between 1920 and 1923, and the remaining Armenians were subjected to further massacres and expulsions. In 1915, thirty-three years before UN Genocide Convention was adopted, the Armenian Genocide was condemned by the international community as a crime against humanity.

Actually wagner i was pretty much aiming at you! You always have an opinion which is very pro american and anti whatever else is out there attitude.

Lets kill all the muslims and wipe lebanon off the map because america gave Israel the firepower? Thats what you sound like. There is no humanity or compassion or empathy in your opinions.

And please dont give me any information about the genocide that you went and gathered on your computer. Okay copy-paster?

I am armenian and my grandparents and family are armenian and i have heard real accounts and seen real pictures on what had happened!

I lived in lebanon for part of the civil war. I have lost family and friends then and now! And to hear an idiot like you comment on things that will probably never affect you in any shape way or form just makes me sick to my stomach!

That's where i'm coming from!

"In 1915, thirty-three years before UN Genocide Convention was adopted, the Armenian Genocide was condemned by the international community as a crime against humanity."
What good came of this? Where is our land? Why do you assume that you know what you're talking about?

Thanks JCL I thought i was alone here with all these "americans"!

Eww, you aimed it at me did ya...gosh I feel proud.

Again, you just re-itterated the fact that you really do have an opinion on the topic you just can't say it....seems like what you're implying is that Israel should go bye-bye simply because Armania didn't get treated the same. I mean I have to assume this since you don't come out and say anything directly.

Copying information that is factual simply allows others viewing a topic to understand the context of discussion, so comments like 'copy-paster' are, again, useless.

Actually my comment to Israel being able to wipe Lebanon off the map came as a direct quote from former PM of Israel Benjamin Netenyahu. I added the American firepower line as they use M109's and other USA made items.

Oh, and I know what I'm talking about...but thanks for asking :)

great, the canadians have spoken!

ahh, if you are sooooooooooooooooo upset about Armenia, why don't you go back there and take your land back?

ahh, I thought so.

what can i say? apparently, i can only copy and paste things for simpletons who need guidance. some of us don't need to copy and paste, as we are immersed in it!

i don't have the time to edumacate you therefore I cut and paste for your benefit, not for mine!

how's the weather in montreal, by the way?

ps forgive me for not using spellcheck.


pps where is your grammar and spell-checker?

Or he could always post a topic discussing the Armenian Genocide and its comparison to Israel....since that is where he took the thread....but then didn't formulate an opinion other then that he thinks I'm an idiot. :)

And he has obviously not read much of what I've posted before as I've stated that I'm very much against US backing and funding the existance of Israel.

The above is a partial quote, so please read it all before forming an opinion. It also wasn't directed at me, but since it is an open topic...

I don't have any particular insight to all of this, never having lived in the Middle East, never having been to Armenia, and not having any idea on how to resolve the various Middle Eastern conflicts.

But I do have a couple of thoughts to add, for what it is worth.

I think that many of these posts are rather one-sided. The word 'rant' in the subject line is probably a good indication of that, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, but please don't pretend that what follows is balanced.

I have a hard time accepting the moral superiority of either party in the current conflict. I think that there are at least three sides, not two. There is Hezbollah, and whatever their charter means today, many years later. There is Israel, confident in its own righteousness, and therefore just as much of a problem as Hezbollah. Sorry if that offends anyone. And then there is a third position, possibly unattainable, but representing some sort of middle ground, and likely the only path to peace in the region. That goal is more important that the goals of each combatant. And IMO, until the various parties accept that, it is all going to carry on.

My link for the day is an analysis of the UN Peacekeeping role. CBC may not be perfect, but it sometimes offers another viewpoint from the US-based western media.

See what you think of the analysis:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/mi...crisis/un.html

And shed a tear for the families of the peacekeepers who felt compelled to stay and do their job. Unarmed.

ps

Semitic

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search
In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical name "Shem") was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, Akkadian, Hebrew, Maltese, Syriac, Tigrinya, etc.
As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the extended cultures and ethnicities, as well as the history of these varied peoples as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution. The late 19th century term "anti-Semitism" came to be used in reference specifically to anti-Jewish sentiment, further complicating the understood meaning and boundaries of the term. Such usage, as well the advent of population genetics, against which other once-useful ethnic terms show a biasing imprecision, has led to much debate about its scope and usefulness in science.
Contents

[hide]

• <LI class=toclevel-1>1 Origin <LI class=toclevel-1>2 Language <LI class=toclevel-1>3 Geography <LI class=toclevel-1>4 Religion <LI class=toclevel-1>5 Ethnicity and race <LI class=toclevel-1>6 See also
• 7 External links

//
[edit]

Origin

The term Semite was proposed at first to refer to the languages related to the Hebrew by Ludwig Schlözer, in Eichhorn's "Repertorium", vol. VIII (Leipzig, 1781), p. 161. Through Eichhorn the name then came into general usage (cf. his "Einleitung in das Alte Testament" (Leipzig, 1787), I, p. 45. In his "Gesch. der neuen Sprachenkunde", pt. I (Göttingen, 1807) it had already become a fixed technical term. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume XIII)
The word "Semitic" is an adjective derived from Shem, one of the three sons of Noah in the Bible (Genesis 5.32, 6.10, 10.21), or more precisely from the Greek form of that name, namely Σημ (Sēm); the noun form referring to a person is Semite. The negative form of the adjective, anti-Semitic, is almost always used as a misnomer to mean "anti-Jewish" specifically.
The concept of a "Semitic" peoples is derived from Biblical accounts of the origins of the cultures known to the ancient Hebrews. Those closest to them in culture and language were generally deemed to be descended from their forefather Shem. Enemies were often said to be descendants of his cursed brother Ham. In Genesis 10:21-31 Shem is described as the father of Aram, Asshur, and others: the Biblical ancestors of the Aramaeans, Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Sabaeans, and Hebrews, etc., all of whose languages are closely related; the language family containing them was therefore named Semitic by linguists. However, the Canaanites and Amorites also spoke a language belonging to this family, and are therefore also termed Semitic in linguistics despite being described in Genesis as sons of Ham (See Sons of Noah). Shem is also described in Genesis as the father of the Elamites and the descendants of Lud, whose languages were not Semitic.
The Proto-Semitic peoples, ancestors of the Semites in the Middle East before the break-up of the hypothesized original proto-Semitic language into various modern Semitic languages, are thought to have been originally from the Arabian Peninsula. Other theories place proto-Semitic in the Ethiopian Highlands and Eritrea.
[edit]

Language

The modern linguistic meaning of "Semitic" is therefore derived from (though not identical to) Biblical usage. In a linguistic context the Semitic languages are a subgroup of the larger Afro-Asiatic language family (according to Joseph Greenberg's widely accepted classification) and include, among others, Akkadian, the ancient language of Babylon, Amharic, the official language of Ethiopia,Tigrinya,a language in Eritrea, Arabic, the largest contemporary Semitic language, Aramaic, the mother-tongue of Jesus, Canaanite, Ge'ez, the ancient language of the Ethiopian Orthodox scriptures, Hebrew, Phoenician or Punic, and South Arabian, the ancient language of Sheba/Saba, which today includes Mehri, spoken by only tiny minorities on the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula.
Wildly successful as second languages far beyond their numbers of contemporary first-language speakers, a few Semitic languages today are the base of the sacred literature of some of the world's great religions, including Islam (Arabic), Judaism (Hebrew and Aramaic), and Orthodox Christianity (Aramaic and Ge'ez). Millions learn these as a second language (or an archaic version of their modern tongues): many Muslims learn to read and recite Classical Arabic, the language of the Qur'an, and Jews all over the world outside of Israel with other first languages speak and study Hebrew, the language of the Torah, Midrash, and other Jewish scriptures.
It should be noted that Berber, Egyptian (including Coptic), Hausa, Somali, and many other related languages within the wider area of Northern Africa and the Middle East do not belong to the Semitic group, but to the larger Afro-Asiatic language family of which the Semitic languages are also a subgroup. Other ancient and modern Middle Eastern languages — Armenian, Kurdish, Persian, Turkish, ancient Sumerian, and Nubian — do not belong to the larger Afro-Asiatic language family and are unrelated to it (or, to be more precise, possibly far more remotely related). (Note, the first three of these languages are Indo-European.)
For a complete list of Semitic and Afro-Asiatic languages, see the Ethnologue's list.
[edit]

Geography

Semitic peoples and their languages in modern and ancient historic times have covered a broad area bridging Africa, Western Asia and the Arabian Peninsula. The earliest historic (written) evidences of them are found in the Fertile Crescent, an area encompassing the Babylonian and Assyrian civilizations along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, extending northwest into southern Asia Minor (modern Turkey) and the Levant along the eastern Mediterranean. (Today this same region is populated by Arabic speakers except for Israel, where modern Hebrew was reintroduced in the 20th century as the national language.) Early traces of Semitic speakers are found, too, in South Arabian inscriptions in Yemen and later, in Roman times, in Nabataean inscriptions from Petra (modern Jordan) south into Arabia. (Here, too, Arabic has largely won out over the original Semitic tongues.) Semitic languages and peoples are also found in the Horn of Africa, especially Eritrea and Ethiopia, the last great holdout of South Semitic languages. Later expansions of Semitic languages also spread into North Africa at two widely separated periods. The first expansion occurred with the ancient Phoenicians, the name given by the Greeks to the Canaanites, along the southern Mediterranean Sea all the way to the Atlantic Ocean (colonies which included ancient Rome's nemesis Carthage). The second, a millennium later, occurred with the expansion of the Muslim armies and Arabic in the 7th-8th centuries AD, which, at their height, controlled the Hispanic Peninsula and Sicily. Arab Muslim expansion is also responsible for modern Arabic's presence from Mauretania, on the Atlantic coast of West Africa, to the Red Sea in the northeastern corner of Africa, and its reach south along the Nile River through traditionally non-Semitic territory, as far as the northern half of Sudan, where, as the national language, non-Arab Sudanese even farther south must learn it. Semitic languages today are also spoken in Malta (where an Italian-influenced dialect of North African Arabic is spoken) and on the island of Socotra in the Indian Ocean between Yemen and Somalia, where a dying vestige of South Arabian is spoken in the form of Soqotri.
[edit]

Religion

In a religious context, the term Semitic can refer to the religions associated with the speakers of these languages: thus Judaism, Christianity and Islam are often described as "Semitic religions," though the term Abrahamic religions is more commonly used today. A truly comprehensive account of "Semitic" religions would include the polytheistic religions (such as the religions of Adad, Hadad) that flourished in the Middle East before the Abrahamic religions.
[edit]

Ethnicity and race

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Ziner_1472.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/co...gnify-clip.png
A stylised T and O map, depicting Asia as the home of the descendents of Shem (Sem). Africa is ascribed to Ham and Europe to Japheth


In Medieval Europe, all Asian peoples were thought of as descendents of Shem. By the nineteenth century, the term Semitic was confined to the ethnic groups who have historically spoken Semitic languages. These peoples were often considered to be a distinct race. However, some anti-Semitic racial theorists of the time argued that the Semitic peoples arose from the blurring of distinctions between previously separate races. This supposed process was referred to as Semiticization by the race-theorist Arthur de Gobineau. The notion that Semitic identity was a product of racial "confusion" was later taken up by the Nazi ideologue Alfred Rosenberg.
Modern science, in contrast, identifies an ethnic group's common physical descent through genetic research, and analysis of the Semitic peoples suggests that they share a significant common ancestry. Though no significant common mitochondrial results have been yielded, Y-chromosomal links between Near-Eastern peoples like the Palestinians, Syrians and ethnic Jews have proved fruitful, despite differences contributed from other groups (see Y-chromosomal Aaron). Although population genetics is still a young science, it seems to indicate that a significant proportion of these peoples' ancestry comes from a common Near Eastern population to which (despite the differences with the Biblical genealogy) the term Semitic has been applied.


[edit]

See also

• Proto-Semitic

[edit]

External links

• Semitic genetics
• Semitic language family tree included under "Afro-Asiatic" in SIL's Ethnologue.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic"



also


an·ti-Sem·ite (http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/abreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif-shttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ebreve.gifmhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif, http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/abreve.gifnhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gif-)
n. One who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews.

anhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gifti-Se·mithttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gific (-shttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif-mhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gifk) adj.




do i have to copy and paste everything to correct you?

Drex, you copy-paster.

JCL, good post. BBC as well as CNN both covered that story. Hard to believe that precision munitions accidently hit a UN outpost....3 times. And shame on Hezbollah for putting rocket launchers less the 1000 meters from a UN outpost.

Hezbollah Flag:
http://www.nationalflaggen.de/flags-.../lb%7Dhezb.gif

Have you bothered reading anything that you copy-pasted? I have lived it! You guys have no real opinions of your own! So call me what you like my opinion of you two is already formed. I have no qualms with israel as a state. It is jerusalem and the way the western world uses it to create war that bothers me! And for your information there are over 150 000 armenians in israel living in peace! My only problem is the way you guys talk about the war and pretend to be above it all!

I have returned to armenia and given money to and worked in several foundations in the country. I may be a simpleton to you but i live the reality of it all and you copy and paste your facts like it's something you know about!

So please drex go fokyurselv.:thumbup:

Oh and wagner i hope i did'nt get you in the eye!:tsk:

If I paid for and operated a web forum, and someone told me this, they would be banned from the site I owned so quickly their disappearance would create a whooshing noise!

Sorry 03Topazbluex5, but that just crossed the line and earned you a ban from the site. I will not tolerate attacks on another board member. You can attack the idea, but not the member.

:thumbup:

...and justice for all.

HA HA.... I'll see you on the BANNED side of the moon...

NO X5 FOR YOU..... :rofl:

Unless I am misreading your quote (which I must be because it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
The reasons the US entered the war was because of PEARL HARBOR.. We were attacked by Japan. Are you implying that the Jews fostered the attack on Pearl Harbor? --

Israel was not "born" and the jews did not "move in".. There have always been Jews in the land now called "Israel" for thousands of years. It was not a country before, it was a territory controlled by the Brits. The territory now known as Israel was sub divided into two "states" - The two states, Israel and Palestine. The Palestinins refused to accept a Jewish state and was thus not recognized by the UN. Essentially, they gave up the right to the land that would have been given to them.
The neighboring Arab states then attacked the country "recently named Israel" because they also did not want a Jewish state.
Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip in wars, were they defended themselves and it was territory that did not technically belong to the Palestinins as they refused the UN Accord that separated the region into two different areas.

Yes, it is true that Israel has crossed the line a few times and done some things in "DEFENSE" of it's borders and it's people. Some strikes have been preemptive, some have been retalitory. The attitude of the Holocaust Survivors and the Jewish response to the death of six million is simple... NEVER AGAIN... NEVER AGAIN will we not fight for our right to live, our right to a homeland, our right to not let our neighbors PUSH US into the sea. --

If you feel so bad for the Lebanese and Palestanians, do something.. Give them YOUR land. But if you or your brother or sister or mom or dad come near our land and try to push into the sea, we will retaliate with equal or greater force. If you don't like it, clean up your own terrorists..

We would love to live in harmony.. Just stop attacking us.

B

Amen.

That goes for Israel. And for US (the United States as well as the pronoun).

Bring your jihad over to the promised land (America or Israel), and that big stick we carry and (swing so ever softly) will be brought down upon you from the heavens and split your head in two so that your blood may flow so that there will be PEACE and DEMOCRACY. (that's from MY prophet).

Democratic Terrorism you say? Perhaps, but it is better than the alternative......

All this fun and neither Eric nor I have posted a word...

They already have. Several times (In US: WTC x2, Pentagon, Somerset County PA, various AQ cells in the USA already caught. In Israel: essentially every damned day.)

I am still waiting for that proverbial stick to come down with more than a tap.

Not tossing aerosol cans into the campfire,
but here's a 5+ min blurb from YouTube...

The woman speaker has Ballz and, some
pretty reasonable opins. Wonder if
she got out of the studio, alive.
BR,mD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPglHZQf-0

She's awesome...

Have to agree with almost all of what she's saying in this clip.

Now, if the American media would wise the f%*k up, and stop feeding us the raving lunatic avowed Hezbollah supporting Arab vs. the very articulate and calm Israeli IDF PR officer every night, we might get some discussion going instead of quick degeneration into accusation and heated argument. I wish they'd put more people like this woman in the clip in the "Arab" chair on CNN, CBS, MSNBC, etc. to show that not all arabs are Muslims, want to behead Americans, hate to wear Armani, etc.

JV

Unless I am misreading your quote (which I must be because it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
The reasons the US entered the war was because of PEARL HARBOR.. We were attacked by Japan. Are you implying that the Jews fostered the attack on Pearl Harbor? --

Israel was not "born" and the jews did not "move in".. There have always been Jews in the land now called "Israel" for thousands of years. It was not a country before, it was a territory controlled by the Brits. The territory now known as Israel was sub divided into two "states" - The two states, Israel and Palestine. The Palestinins refused to accept a Jewish state and was thus not recognized by the UN. Essentially, they gave up the right to the land that would have been given to them.
The neighboring Arab states then attacked the country "recently named Israel" because they also did not want a Jewish state.
Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip in wars, were they defended themselves and it was territory that did not technically belong to the Palestinins as they refused the UN Accord that separated the region into two different areas.

Yes, it is true that Israel has crossed the line a few times and done some things in "DEFENSE" of it's borders and it's people. Some strikes have been preemptive, some have been retalitory. The attitude of the Holocaust Survivors and the Jewish response to the death of six million is simple... NEVER AGAIN... NEVER AGAIN will we not fight for our right to live, our right to a homeland, our right to not let our neighbors PUSH US into the sea. --

If you feel so bad for the Lebanese and Palestanians, do something.. Give them YOUR land. But if you or your brother or sister or mom or dad come near our land and try to push into the sea, we will retaliate with equal or greater force. If you don't like it, clean up your own terrorists..

We would love to live in harmony.. Just stop attacking us.

B


I was referring to ww1. If you weren't so busy trying to turn my comment into an offensive tactic you would have noticed that. I definitely don't want to push you or any other Jew into any thing. im just pointing out the facts.....as far as our own terrorists are concerned we "Serbs" took out 250 thousand terrorists over the last ten years of the Balkan wars and we would have cleaned the whole region if it wasn't for the Americans stopping us.....I guess the terrorist game can only be played if the Jews and the Americans have something to gain from it.....also the Armenian that was banned , I agree he crossed the line but I understand him ....I would love to see how you all would feel and what you'd have to say if you went trough what we went trough.....I'm a Serb there is no place on this planet I cant go and wear a t shirt with my flag, even our enemies respect us.....can you say the same??????

this is too long of a read for me but all i can say is along the lines of if you think Israel is terrorizing lebanon and the arabs F*$K you, take your head out of the sand and look around you, every nation in the middle east and nearly all over the world wants nothing more than to see Israel die. Well guess what its not going to happen. I was there 2 years ago and visited most of the cities that are now being bombed. What are they bombing? sure as hell not military posts. Not in Tzfat thats the most innocent city there. so if you think shooting at houses housing bombs and rockets is a bad thing well you've got another thing coming. No one likes the Jews and never did and to this day i dont understand why. I'm one myself and whoever said "I was referring to ww1. If you weren't so busy trying to turn my comment into an offensive tactic you would have noticed that. I definitely don't want to push you or any other Jew into any thing. im just pointing out the facts.....as far as our own terrorists are concerned we "Serbs" took out 250 thousand terrorists over the last ten years of the Balkan wars and we would have cleaned the whole region if it wasn't for the Americans stopping us.....I guess the terrorist game can only be played if the Jews and the Americans have something to gain from it.....also the Armenian that was banned , I agree he crossed the line but I understand him ....I would love to see how you all would feel and what you'd have to say if you went trough what we went trough.....I'm a Serb there is no place on this planet I cant go and wear a t shirt with my flag, even our enemies respect us.....can you say the same??????" you need to get your head checked and examined. you are complaining about what you went through? how about 5000 years of torture and escaping and running how about having some place on this earth as a safe heaven, how about not having to worry about walking the street with a Star of David or having the Israeli flag in your car, how about a place where you dont have to worry about swastikas being drawn on your front lawn. How about somewhere you wont be referred to as a dirty Jew or pig. and all we are asking for is a country no more in size than an oversized parking lot. we built it up made it beautiful made it a home where every Jew can go and feel happy. if you dont think we deserve that F($K you!!!

I appreciate all the comments from everyone here on the pro Israel and pro self defence. I'm just really foaming at the mouth at the few who have the balls to say we are terrorists

I'm going to break my political silence for one SINGLE post here, and make a few observations and comments...

I'm an American Jew, and have a few close Israeli friends, including my ex-girlfriend who served in the IDF. Most of her family lives back in Israel. In fact, her brother lives in Haifa where all the Hezbollah rockets have been coming into Israel.

The problem here is much more complicated than most Americans realize. Here in the United States, most of the public is in support of Israel, but what they do not realize is that the political climate in Israel is very split between conservatives and liberals -- very similar to the political climate in the United States. An observation my ex-girlfriend has made is that American Jews are more supportive of the Israeli government than are Israelis.

So what are the internal debates going on in Israel? Well, it is no secret that a lasting peace can be had if they really want it. But the question is "at what price?"

If you go back to the 1950s-1970s, Israel's biggest enemy was Egypt, and both Syria and Jordan were also major enemies. The big terrorist group then was the Muslim Brotherhood which was based in Egypt.

Well, in 1979 Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty. Israel gave land back to Egypt, and in the 27 years since then, there has not been a single incident of violence or major hostility between the 2 countries.

In 1993, the same thing happened with respect to Jordan, and in the 13 years since then, no incidents. Keep in mind that Egypt and Jordan are not democracies -- perhaps Egypt is a very "limited" democracy, but Jordan still has a King. So "democracy" is not a necessary element to have peace. Perhaps someone should explain this to our President.

So peace can indeed be had....but are we willing to give away land for peace? That is the debate....

While most of the world looked at Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin as a hero and they gave him the Nobel Peace Prize, many Israeli conservatives were of the opinion that he sold them out by giving away land -- and that is still the opinion of many Israelis today. He is not considered a hero by many, and as we know he was assasinated not by Arabs, but by a radical right wing Israeli group.

I guess his dealings with Jordan and the PLO are viewed in a similar light to JFK's dealings with the Soviet Union regarding the Cuban Missle Crisis. Many Americans think he helped avoid a major crisis, but many conservatives think he was too soft on Communism.

So the problem here comes down to a conflict in religious ideology. While my ex-girlfriend is not that religious, she does believe that the bible clearly states what lands are part of Israel. For example, Sinai -- the land given back to Egypt in 1979 -- is part of what the bible says is Israel. And she, along with many Israelis, believes that Sinai should be part of Israel, even if Israel has to conquer that land. Same with Gaza, the West Bank (including Jerusalem), and many lands that are currently part of Lebenon, Syria, and Jordan. This sort of stuff is taught to Israeli children in school and they grow up believing that they have a God-given right to certain lands in the Middle East, most of which currently belong to other countries.

I don't have to go into the extremism and religious beliefs of many Muslims, as the woman in the video above clearly covered all of that. And of course, little Arab kids grow up exposed to just as much, or perhaps more, propoganda about the evil Jews.

I guess my point here is that religious beliefs do fuel both sides, not just the Arab side.

What needs to happen here in order for there to be peace, is you need to have more liberal (and less religious) leaders on both sides of the dispute. You had that in 1993, and I believe if Rabin had not been assasinated, you would have peace in the region today. And as for Arrafat, for years Israel complained that he was a terrorist, but what we see today is that he was probably the most liberal and least extreme Palestinean leader that you can hope for.

I used to hear people say "anyone would be better than him" (as a negotiating partner). Be careful what you wish for...you may just get it...(now you have Hamas and Hezbollah)

On a side note, the Muslim Brotherhood still does exist today. But their support among the Egyptian public is very small. They are seen by the Egyptian public as extremists, much the way the American public views American extremist groups like the Arian Army and the KKK.

You are always going to have extremist groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, and the KKK. These groups thrive on violence and war. The more violence and war there is, the more support such groups receive from the general public in their countries. The solution to dealing with such groups, is not to try to defeat them using force -- this only makes them heros and martyrs. The solution is to have peace. As history has shown, when there is peace, such groups quickly become very insignificant.

"THERE IS NO ROAD TO PEACE. PEACE IS THE ROAD." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Ok...that's all I have to say....carry on with the discussion... :thumbup:

You're going to compare dropping a bomb to end a war (which we didn't start) to flying a plane into a building?

I don't see the point in trying to discuss this. You already have your mind made up about "us Americans".

I'm sorry someone pissed in your Cheerios, but take it down a notch. You're ranting, and not in a good way. :tsk:

Eric, good points. Some things I would pull out (especially for xxx):

1. Notice how when Israel kicked someone's ass from here to the hereafter, there was peace?

2. Notice how doing what the UN wanted (i.e. land for peace), there wasn't?

I've only had the pleasure (and it was truly that) of being in Israel once. A little time in Haifa, and then a little somewhere between there and the Lebanon border (;) ). I pains me to hear of the terror inflicted on the Israelis, and I support their attempts to end it.

Victory = peace!

Not to stir the pot here, but the two statements above look quite similar to me, except that one was directed at the forum administrator. But still, the second is clearly a personal attack at what I am sure is more than just a single member of this forum.

Admins/moderators, thank you for the "ignore" function.

(I'm sure others have used it on me...;) )

Eric i didnt mean to stir the pot either. I've just been reading the news and looking at what is going on and it pisses me off to think/know that there are people who cant understand and distinguish terror from self defence. To anyone who might have taken offence in what I said I apologize

Dude, you totally stole my thunder :slap: :rofl:

Since I have stumbled into this "tar-baby" I might as well throw in my two cents.

First I would like to point out that I know not much more about the current crisis than what I have read in the papers and seen on television. I am neither pro-Israel nor am I pro-Islamic/Muslim. In fact I am decidedly anti-demographic; that is to say I am against any belief system, whether it be religous, political, cultural, or gender based that causes people to forsake their own sense of decency in pursuit of a proclaimed greater good. I am also not naive enough to believe that we can count on this individualistic sense of decency to in and of itself maintain peace amongst a diverse group of societies and religions.

Eric you touched on numerous excellent points which begs the question, with a conflict as complicated and multi-layered as that found between Israel and it's Arab neighbors can a resolution truly ever be had?

I know Hezzbolah is a terrorist organization and has committed horrific acts against Israel. I am not informed enough to discuss the real or imagined reasons why many Islamic nations are anti Semitic and have such an easy time sustaining and growing terrorist organizations. Nor am I informed enough to discuss whether or not Israel is just in it's cause or equally just in it's actions.
What I do know is that when I see the images of the women and children on both sides who have been claimed by this conflict and listen to the rhetoric about how casualties are a necessity of war I take great personal offence. As I sit here typing this now meandering rant, with my six month old son asleep three feet away from me I feel outrage. How dare anyone claim that their cause is just when it "requires" the killing of a child? How dare anyone defend such actions by claiming it was the other sides fault, or an accident or required by their belief system?
I don't have any answers. Hell I don't even know what questions need asking, but I do know that so far nobody is right or just.

Ummm, that's called genocide what you were doing. It's like what Hitler did to the Jews. That's why America stepped in.

Parker:

I agree, particularly with your last paragraph, and your last sentence. Very well put. I was trying to get at the same thing in my post, some pages earlier in this thread, but you said it better.

Yeah, actually it was after I read your opinion I kinda started to formulate my own......... coulda saved myself some effort by just posting a :withstupi under your post back on page 4.

cheers. :thumbup:

Man was that ever a 'general' statement.

Just my 2-cts contribution to this thread; I was incapable to sit here and watch so much verbal diarrhea spill out from such a high number of members of this forum, who obvioulsy suffer from the same unfortunate symptoms of "total collective brainwash" affecting over 50% of the US population. I have much empathy for the US because I do still believe it is a great Nation with great people; but unfortunately one on it's more Obscure facets is how well controlled US citizens are by the all-insidious Mass Media that controls nearly every aspect of human life from the north of Mexico to South of Canada.


The following is a report from the field by an Israeli columnist. So don't call me biased (for either side) because I'm not. Read it and some of you may learn something about this conflict.


PS: for all of you who still believe either Saddam had anything to do whatsoever with 9/11, or that the US invaded Iraq for any justifiable reason, I strongly advise you to make real use of the Internet and read information sources OTHER than Fox...



Days of Darkness
By Gideon Levy
Haaretz.com
Sunday 30 July 2006

In war as in war: Israel is sinking into a strident, nationalistic atmosphere and darkness is beginning to cover everything. The brakes we still had are eroding, the insensitivity and blindness that characterized Israeli society in recent years is intensifying. The home front is cut in half: the north suffers and the center is serene. But both have been taken over by tones of jingoism, ruthlessness and vengeance, and the voices of extremism that previously characterized the camp's margins are now expressing its heart. The left has once again lost its way, wrapped in silence or "admitting mistakes". Israel is exposing a unified, nationalistic face.

The devastation we are sowing in Lebanon doesn't touch anyone here and most of it is not even shown to Israelis. Those who want to know what Tyre looks like now have to turn to foreign channels the BBC reporter brings chilling images from there, the likes of which won't be seen here.

How can one not be shocked by the suffering of the other, at our hands, even when our north suffers? The death we are sowing at the same time, right now in Gaza, with close to 120 dead since the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit, 27 last Wednesday alone, touches us even less. The hospitals in Gaza are full of burned children, but who cares? The darkness of the war in the north covers them, too.

Since we've grown accustomed to thinking collective punishment a legitimate weapon, it is no wonder no debate has sparked here over the cruel punishment of Lebanon for Hezbollah's actions. If it was okay in Nablus, why not Beirut? The only criticism being heard about this war is over tactics. Everyone is a general now and they are mostly pushing the IDF to deepen its activities. Commentators, ex-generals and politicians compete at raising the stakes with extreme proposals.

Haim Ramon "doesn't understand" why there is still electricity in Baalbek; Eli Yishai proposes turning south Lebanon into a "sandbox"; Yoav Limor, a Channel 1 military correspondent, proposes an exhibition of Hezbollah corpses and the next day to conduct a parade of prisoners in their underwear, "to strengthen the home front's morale".

It's not difficult to guess what we would think about an Arab TV station whose commentators would say something like that, but another few casualties or failures by the IDF, and Limor's [foreign minister limor Livnat] proposal will be implemented. Is there any better sign of how we have lost our senses and our humanity?

Chauvinism and an appetite for vengeance are raising their heads. If two weeks ago only lunatics such as Safed Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu spoke about wiping out every village where a Katyusha is fired, now a senior officer in the IDF speaks that way in Yedioth Aharonoth's main headlines. Lebanese villages may not have been wiped out yet, but we have long since wiped out our own red lines.

A bereaved father, Haim Avraham, whose son was kidnapped and killed by Hezbollah in October 2000, fires an artillery shell into Lebanon for the reporters. It's vengeance for his son. His image, embracing the decorated artillery shell is one of the most disgraceful images of this war. And it's only the first. A group of young girls also have their picture taken decorating IDF shells with slogans.

Maariv, which has turned into the Fox News of Israel, fills its pages with chauvinist slogans reminiscent of particularly inferior propaganda machines, such as "Israel is strong" which is indicative of weakness, actually while a TV commentator calls for the bombing of a TV station.
Lebanon, which has never fought Israel and has 40 daily newspapers, 42 colleges and universities and hundreds of different banks, is being destroyed by our planes and cannons and nobody is taking into account the amount of hatred we are sowing. In international public opinion, Israel has been turned into a monster, and that still hasn't been calculated into the debit column of this war. Israel is badly stained, a moral stain that can't be easily and quickly removed. And only we don't want to see it.
The people want victory, and nobody knows what that is and what its price will be.

The Zionist left has also been made irrelevant. As in every difficult test in the past the two intifadas for example, this time too the left has failed just when its voice was so necessary as a counterweight to the stridency of the beating tom-toms of war. Why have a left if at every real test it joins the national chorus?

Peace Now stands silently, so does Meretz, except for brave Zehava Gal-On. A few days of a war of choice and already Yehoshua Sobol is admitting he was wrong all along. Peace Now is suddenly an "infantile slogan" for him. His colleagues are silent and their silence is no less resounding. Only the extreme left makes its voice heard, but it is a voice nobody listens to.

Long before this war is decided, it can already be stated that its spiraling cost will include the moral blackout that is surrounding and covering us all, threatening our existence and image no less than Hezbollah's Katyushas.

I bet Levy wasn't present in Germany in 1941.

I also bet Levy is also a pacifist.

Counter-point:


The Predictable Condemners (The Dersh On Israel's Critics Chutzpah On Israel's Self-Defense Alert)
Jerusalem Post ^| 07/23/06 | Alan Dershowitz

Posted on 07/23/2006 8:30:00 AM PDT by goldstategop

The Hizbullah and Hamas provocations against Israel once again demonstrate how terrorists exploit human rights and the media in their attacks on democracies.
By hiding behind their own civilians the Islamic radicals issue a challenge to democracies: Either violate your own morality by coming after us and inevitably killing some innocent civilians, or maintain your morality and leave us with a free hand to target your innocent civilians.
This challenge presents democracies such as Israel with a lose-lose option, and the terrorists with a win-win option.
There is one variable that could change this dynamic and present democracies with a viable option that could make terrorism less attractive as a tactic: The international community, the anti-Israel segment of the media and the so called "human rights" organizations could stop falling for this terrorist gambit and acknowledge that they are being used to promote the terrorist agenda.
Whenever a democracy is presented with the lose-lose option and chooses to defend its citizens by going after the terrorists who are hiding among civilians, this trio of predictable condemners can be counted on by the terrorists to accuse the democracy of "overreaction," "disproportionality" and "violations of human rights."
In doing so they play right into the hands of the terrorists, causing more terrorism and more civilian casualties on both sides. If instead this trio could, for once, be counted on to blame the terrorists for the civilian deaths on both sides, this tactic would no longer be a win-win situation for the terrorists.
IT SHOULD BE obvious by now that Hizbullah and Hamas actually want the Israeli military to kill as many Lebanese and Palestinian civilians as possible. That is why they store their rockets underneath the beds of civilians; why they launch their missiles from crowded civilian neighborhoods and hide among civilians. They are seeking to induce Israel to defend its civilians by going after them among their civilian "shields." They know that every civilian they induce Israel to kill hurts Israel in the media and the international and human rights communities.
They regard these human shields as shahids - martyrs - even if they did not volunteer for this lethal job. Under the law, criminals who use human shields are responsible for the deaths of the shields, even if the bullet that kills them came from the gun of a policeman.
Israel has every self-interest in minimizing civilian casualties, whereas the terrorists have every self-interest in maximizing them - on both sides. Israel should not be condemned for doing what every democracy would and should do: taking every reasonable military step to stop the terrorists from killing their innocent civilians.
NOW THAT some of those who are launching rockets at Israeli cities have announced they have new surprises in store for Israel that may include chemical and biological weapons, the stakes have gotten even higher.
What would Israeli critics regard as "proportioned" to a chemical or biological attack? What would they say if Israel tried to preempt such an attack and, in the process, killed some civilians? Must a democracy absorb a first strike from a weapon of mass destruction before it fights back? Would any other democracy be expected to do that?
The world must come to recognize the cynical way in which terrorists exploit civilian casualties. They launch anti-personnel rockets designed to maximize enemy civilian casualties, then they cry "human rights" when their own civilians - behind whom they are deliberately hiding - are killed by the democracies in the process of trying to prevent further acts of terrorism.
The very idea that terrorists who use women and children as suicide bombers against other women and children shed crocodile tears over the deaths of civilians they deliberately put in harm's way gives new meaning to the word "hypocrisy." We all know that hypocrisy is a tactic of the terrorists, but it is shocking that others fall for it and become complicit with the terrorists.
Let the blame fall where it belongs: on the terrorists who deliberately seek to kill enemy civilians and give their democratic enemies little choice but to kill some civilians behind whom the terrorists are hiding.
Those who condemn Israel for killing civilians - who are used as human shields and swords for the terrorists - actually cause more civilian deaths and make it harder for Israel to withdraw from the West Bank.
HOW THE WORLD reacts to Israel's current military efforts to protect its citizens will have a considerable impact on future Israeli steps toward peace. Prior to the recent kidnappings and rocket attacks the Israeli government had announced its intention to engage in further withdrawals from large portions of the West Bank. But how can Israel be expected to move forward with any plan for withdrawal if all it can expect in return is more terrorism - what the terrorists regard as "land for rocket launchings" - and more condemnation when it seeks to protect its civilians?

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2006ISRAELWAR; ALANDERSHOWITZ; CHUTZPAH; CRITICS; IDF; ISLAMOFASCISM; ISRAEL; JERUSALEMPOST; PREDICTBLECONDEMNERS; SELFDEFENSE; THEDERSH; WARONTERROR
The Dersh has some things to say this morning about Israel's critics and their chutzpah towards Israel's self-defense. Terrorists today use civilians as human shields to carry on their activities. And a democracy's attempts to root them out brings forth the predictable condemners of its self-defense activities. In all this, Dershowitz's point is that if the world does not understand that Israel has to respond in a major way to terrorist atrocities to deter them - what's the point of Israeli concessions?? If you're going to be condemned anyway, you might as well stay in strategically defensible territory. That's exactly what I think Israel ought to do, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks - they don't live in a neighborhood surrounded by enemies bent upon their destruction. Israel deserves wide latitude to protect the lives of citizens and secure the peace on its borders as well as within its sovereign territory. Its about time - and time for the world to get off Israel's case and put its chutzpah aside.

Why is it that people think America is so stupid?

Why do you think we have not yet gotten involved?

Israel is a democracy. The other countries are not.

Israel has a government. Hamas/Hezbollah/etc. does not.

Israel has land. Hamas/Hezbollah/etc. does not.

Israel is in the 21st century for rights for women, voting, etc. The other organizations are not.

Israel can be negotiated with. They are a member of the UN, UNOS, and every other organization in the world. Hamas/HEzbollah/etc. are not.

Are you people intellectually challenged?

These organizations are much like cancer. They hide between the body's good cells and wrech havoc and destruction. They grow and destroy every system the body has. When you excise cancer, you invariably take out normal tissue with it, much like a margin.....

If the cancer choses to hide in the normal tissue, what choice does Israel have?

So kidnap two solders today, three families tomorrow, one entire township the next week, a major city next month, etc?

I am so glad that I don't think the way much of you do.

No one wants war. No one wants death. No one wants destruction. EXCEPT for those Muslims who believe all non-Muslims must die.

Wake up. WAKE up. Wake up before its TOO LATE.

:thumbup:

:iagree:

And I thought it was for the Virgins

:rofl: :rofl:

Virgins? What virgins?

It is widely believed that Muslim 'martyrs' enjoy rich sensual rewards on reaching paradise. A new study suggests they may be disappointed. Ibn Warraq reports...

i think the only virgins will be them, in hell, waiting to be penetrated eternally by someone with a pitchfork.

Right, huh? It could be be 4000 years ago and we're watching folks throw goat feces at each other across the River Jordan...maybe Condi Rice should just haul her Steinway to the border and get everybody in a sing-along.

the "soldiers" kept by Israel are terrorists or someone associated with one and are kept there so that they dont either A) provide a means for a teen to strap a dynomite pack and blow up on a bus and B) so that they themselves dont do that same thing.

On the other hand the Israeli soldiers were not going into any territory they should not have been in they were taken from ISRAEL meaning Hezbolah crossed international border.

As was mentioned here Israel has a government and an army and its a nation accept it or not, Palestinians rejected anything given to them unless it was all of Israel, and choose or at least their terrorist government chooses that fate. There is no organized govt there is no one person to go against. Hezbolah is the same its not a nation its a regime within a country that hides in houses of civilians which when blown up are made victims. But no one will care about that fact, about the fact that palestinians raise their kids to go and blow themselves up to kill as many Israelis as possible, the reason i say Israelis is that there are plenty of Arabs in Israel they too suffer. but instead of turning on their own so called government to get them to stop terrorizing the Israelis, the only thing palestinians do is complain how Israel is restricting them. Let me ask those of you who think Israel is wrong what you would do if someone from another state came to your house kidnapped your husband/wife/son/daughter and left. FOR NO REASON except that they didnt like you and wanted your property because they feel its rightfully theirs. Wouldnt you go cross into their state and raise all hell and get anyone out of the way who might stand in it?

For all who are interested, here is some information on the first two terrorist groups to operate in the Middle East (during the 1930s and 1940s):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun


From the first article, a quote from the Zionist newspaper of the time "The Front", August 1943:

Neither Jewish morality nor Jewish tradition can negate the use of terror as a means of battle.
...
We are quite far from moral hesitations on the national battlefield. We see before us the command of the Torah, the most moral teaching in the world: Obliterate - until destruction. We are particularly far from this sort of hesitation in regard to an enemy whose moral perversion is admitted by all.
But primarily terror is part of our political battle under present conditions and its role is large and great.

• It demonstrates, in clear language, to those who listen throughout the world and to our despondent brothers outside the gates of this country of our battle against the true terrorist who hides behind his piles of papers and the laws he has legislated.
• It is not directed against people, it is directed against representatives. Therefore it is effective.
• If it also shakes the Yishuv from their complacency, good and well.

Only so will the battle for liberation begin.

It appears that history is not without a sense of irony. ;)

AccceeelllllA:
Rack It! A Fookin Classic! :thumbup:

but Eric you being of Jewish descent have to agree that our people were not are not and most likely will not ever be accepted anywhere. so what else can we do? we dont make a point that we are the best and anyone non Jewish cant live, we dont kill because we are hungry for 72 big chested virgins (if you find a big chested virgin in heaven please let me know). so yes irgun was a "terrorist" group but they were fighting for a right to exist somewhere, there is not a single Jewish state, arabs have the entire middle east.

Correct on both accounts, I would guess, but his point about "sowing the seeds of hatred" cuts to the heart of the matter and is quite valid. Where are the opportunities to short circuit or diminish the cycles of hate and prejudice, particulary in a part of the world criss-crossed by cultures at odds over one another?

Too strident a response will only create more Hezbollah recruits--at what point do the diminishing returns kick in? What would the world be like today wihout the Serb who shot Archduke Ferdinand, without the Treaty of Vienna, without Hitler, and without a Holocaust?

Years ago in NYC, I shared a loft with a couple, Michael and Zena. He was a Jew from NY, she was Lebanese. I believe they got married. There is hope.

Good point. Your mistake is that you are grouping all Arabs together. Let's see how you would feel if you were the victim given those circumstances....

What if, for example, a group of Native Americans were to form a terrorist group and begin a successful fight for their land back hundreds of years after they lost the land (which is what Irgun and the Stern gang did). What if their justification was "White people have the entire continent of Europe and also Canada, but American Indians do not have their own country."

Now let's suppose that during this "independence" war, this terrorist group came to your land and kicked you off, and in the process they killed some of your family and friends.

Would you quietly move to Europe or Canada, or would you stay to join the group who was going to fight against them and disrupt their new country by all means necessary?

Most Palestineans did indeed move to other countries. But a fair percentage of them refused to move, and they are the ones who make up the current population of Gaza and the West Bank.

When you think of yourself, do you feel that you are more "American" or more "White"? My guess is that you associate yourself more as being an American. So can you understand how those people associate themselves as being "Palestinean" more than being "Arab"?

And with that, I have now said my peace/piece (pun intended) on this subject. Back to no more political posts....

Please don't think that anything that I said supports what you said before. And also, please do not compare the killing of 250,000 people to the killing of 500 people (the total Lebonese deaths in the current war). It is not even close.

In no way am I justifying terrorism. What I am saying is that both sides are equally guilty here. But that does not mean I agree with them. I think they are both wrong, and the unfortunate result is that innocent civilians on both sides suffer.

IMO, both sides should rise up and kick their extremist leaders out of office and find some more moderate leaders to negotiate a peace treaty and both should have their own countries. Unfortunately, a nasty human reflex reaction is that when we are faced with violence and are scared, we tend to give more support to extremists, which is exactly what we see happening on both sides of the current conflict.

correct but if they would do me no harm i would agree to live with them as many israelis are doing but i'm referring to the ones that want to get rid of the Jewish people as a whole its not a matter of Israel, thats just a scapegoat for a bigger picture of "Extinguish all Jews" rid the world of them. There are plenty palestinians and arabs in Israel who live in harmony. and yes neither side is correct but the problem is its a country vs a terrorist group how is that even comparable? you cant sit down and speak with them they are everyone.

at a rate of 25000/year you get 250000 over 10 years if the Israelis kill 25000 lebanese palestinians hezbolah whatever the hell they are there wont be anyone else to kill this is not a war to KILL JUST ANYONE its a war to KILL THOSE WHO DONT WANT THERE TO BE PEACE UNLESS THE JEWS ARE EXTERMINATED get it?! and for the record this ignorant kid you are referring to is not here.

Apparently there are still folks not realizing this is a war and are wondering why the 'conflict' is brutal.

Easy there buddy your math skills are quite good but 80000 over 10 years vs 25000/year sorry takes 3 years now where were we. and as i just said had you cared enough to read at this rate we can wipe out their entire civilization and dont get me wrong i wouldnt mind seeing that happen an eye for an eye if you will but we arent going after their people we are going after those who want to kill us. so lets see if hitler would hide behind his people while still shooting at the rest of the world and the russians and the rest of the world would kill the germans they would cry "bastards they are pittyless" that would be fine????????????? i didnt say kill the people but they were warned and back to a point someone here mindlessly made about katrina yes they were warned too and in the aftermath were rioting and raiding stores taking tvs sorry bud G-d helps those who help themselves and i aint about to help someone running down the street with a 32" tv they just stole out of the corner store. after 9/11 crime in NYC went DOWN not UP, people helped not rioted. Read the news get your facts straight and for the love of g-d dont call me champ, bro

:iagree:

I know I don't always see eye-to-eye with most people on these sort of issues, but I'm pretty sure most people would say that the total killed matters much more than the frequency.

I'm pretty sure if a murderer was on trial for 2 murders, they would not punish him harsher if he killed both in the same day rather than 5 weeks apart. ;)

If the current war with Lebenon lasts 10 years, then you can do the math. But until that time, the total number of dead is around 500, not 80,000. And even Israel's extremist war-mongering leaders know that an extended war with large numbers of civilian casualties is not going to accomplish their objective.

This is really ridiculous man! I would suggest you go back to your history book and learn more about what happened during WW1. Unlike for WW2, where the entry of the USA into the war clearly made the difference and drove the allies to victory, when the US entered the 'Great' War in 1917 not only it was very late but also the US Army was not prepared for coping with anything much more complex than domestic disturbances or border defense. The Germans had started backing off few years earlier after some important victories of the allies, mostly English and French at that time. When the USA entered the conflict it certainely helped shortening the war but the fate of the German army was, for its most part, already sealed. The idea of the Jews dealing with the English to get the USA into the conflict is a joke.

Hey guys...

Don't continue to feed the TROLL...

In nearly 100 posts I still haven't seen the answer to a key question:

Is it really in the Quran that all non-Muslims should be wiped from the earth - in clear, literal terms? Or, is that simply an interpretation by an extreme-minded subset of Muslims?

Also, what do you hear in your mosques regarding this topic? Is the same message being preached world-wide or are there varying degrees of intolerance for infidels?

I would like to hear a Muslim's view on this question, if possible...

Thanks.

xxx-I have not been keeping up on this thread for it's entirety, but personal attacks have not and will not be tolerated on this board. You can debate the topic if you'd like but do not attack other people because they don't share the same point of view as you.
Myself as well as the the other administrators/moderators will close this thread if this type of behavior continues.
Thanks.

I am not Muslim, but the answer to your question is No. Not in those terms. It is an interpretation (much like the right wing fanatical christians blowing up abortion clinics). Violence is against basic judeo-christian-muslim (as Islam is an extension of the other two religions). As usual, it takes a few crazies to spoil the pot.

Muslim - Christian - Jew -- sons of Abraham.

Father, forgive them, for they know NOT what they do.

- Bono, U2 concert, May 13, 2005, Chicago Arena.

ps

Everyone is entitled to their view. That is the basic tentant of Freedom. Right or wrong, good or bad, you are entitled to think whatever you want, and write or express it; however, when you try to impose your beliefs on others under the threat of violence, you have crossed the line.


The facts are the facts; the reality is the reality. The opinions and views are just that: opinions and views. They are worthless unless you do something about it.

The worst part of hipocrasy is to sit there and type "blah blah blah" 'woe were we'. Have you done something to fix it? Have you righted the wrong, asked for forgiveness, turned the other cheek, picked up the sword and fought, sought diplomatic answers/channels, make a change, effect a change, change your city/county/state/workplace/hospital?

Its funny how people use their keyboard as ego extensions and have never done/said/participated in anything to prove their point, solve their dilemmas, and fight their battles (present, or past).

Its funny how people leave their countries and settle in others, and bitch about how it was or how they had it bad, yet do nothing to organize and fix it.

Ever hear about the American Revolution? It was a quasi political uprising. The dregs of England in the New Colonies fought off their injustice in the name of economics and religious freedoms AGAINST all odds.

Why can't other people do the same?


Oh, it makes you wonder.......

YOU GOY BOIII :iagree:

It is much more difficult in today's world to overthrow a government and have a sucessful revolution.

Back in the days of the American revolution, the entire revolution was won by an army of around 3500. There were actually more Americans fighting on the side of the British -- around 8000.

In 1917, the Russian revolution was won with a fighting force of a couple of thousand.

And in the 1950s, the Cuban revolution was won with a tiny force of a couple of hundred.

What made these revolutions successful was not the numbers or a superior fighting force, but the support among the general population for change.

The problem in today's world is that we now have radio, television -- a very powerful media. So such revolutionaries or "freedom fighters" are often demonized by the establishment and called "terrorists". As a result, even if the public is very dissatisfied with their government, they are unlikely to support such revolutionary movements. Governments have the ability to control thought through propoganda -- something that was much more difficult in the past.

In today's world Washington, Jefferson and Franklin would have been rounded up and sent to a Guantanamo-like prison, with the approval of the public.

Sad, but true. :tsk:

Right on Drex!

Right On !!!
 

Eric, you hit the nail right on the head !!! Today's mass media (#1 driver of all effective worldwide propaganda) is soooo intertwined with the REAL power-houses behind Governments (ALL powerful Governments, NO exceptions; Democratic, Right-wing, left-wing, Dictatoships, etc) that it's a totally different ballgame. The frightening power of mass-media is to me the most powerful single contributing factor to today's world being a place infinitely more dangerous and unstable than ever.

Extremely Sad indeed; Absolutely true.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


hmmmmmmmmmmmm


can you say USSR?

I don't think so my friend.

Apartheid.

I don't think so my friend.

just wait. China about 2020.

It has begun.

Bullshit.

media=information. information=power. power=enlightenment.

The problem is that YOU CANNOT ENLIGHTEN THOSE THAT CHOOSE NOT BE ENLIGHTENED.

Case in point is this discussion.

What a bunch of crap. You think the MEDIA controls everything?

I am for the war. Most people (and the media) against it.

I am for Israel. Most people (and the media) against it because of humanitarian reasons. Yet, how funny that:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1820193.shtml

House Passes Pro-Israel Resolution

Lawmakers Vote 410-8 To Support Israel's Military Campaign In Lebanon

--------------------------------------------------------------------

hmmm. You think the enlightened ones in Washington care what the media thinks? Or maybe they know something you all don't.

hmmmmmmmm.

ps

and don't think for a minute this isn't related to nuclear power issues in Iran.

please please please for the love of yourselves, start thinking on a higher plane if you can.

why do syria and iran support Hezbollah? why did the UN just pass the 30 Aug resolution? just exactly what do you think is going on over there?


pps


why the FUCK do you think Iran needs nuclear weapons IF they control a vast amount of the world's oil? To use on their own or nearby soil?


the problem that has happened is that we have stopped darwinian selection and natural evolution. many of the opinions here are a product of socialist states that breed "followers" and "pacifists".

let me copy paste for those of you 'enlightened ones':

"These are the times that try men's' souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; bur that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny.....is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."
Thomas Paine, Intro to the The Crisis, December 19, 1776

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
Thomas Paine

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine, 1776

Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
Thomas Paine, Rights of Man, 1791

If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.
Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, No. 1, December 19, 1776

Everything that is right or reasonable pleads for separation. The blood of the slain, the weeping voice of nature cries, 'tis time to part.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Thomas Paine, The American Crisis, No. 1, December 19, 1776

"If this be treason, make the most of it."
Patrick Henry, n.d.

"The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, New Englanders are no more. I AM NOT A VIRGINIAN, BUT AN AMERICAN!"
Patrick Henry, n.d.

"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death."
Patrick Henry, n.d.

"The battle, Sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable; and let it come! I repeat, Sir, let it come!"
Patrick Henry

"They tell us Sir, that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature has placed in our power."
Patrick Henry

"Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Beside, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of Nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us."
Patrick Henry

The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.
Patrick Henry, speech in the Virginia Convention, 1775

Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patrick Henry, speech in the Virginia Convention, 1775

Liberty, the greatest of all earthly blessings -- give us that precious jewel, and you may take every thing else! Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel.

Patrick Henry, speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
I believe a time will come when an opportunity will be offered to abolish this lamentable evil. Everything we do is to improve it, if it happens in our day; if not, let us transmit to our descendants, together with our slaves, a pity for their unhappy lot and an abhorrence of slavery.

Patrick Henry on slavery in a letter to Robert Pleasants, January 18, 1773
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.
Patrick Henry, speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

If you speak of solid information and sound judgement, Colonel Washington is, unquestionably the greatest man on that floor.
Patrick Henry, about George Washington, 1775

Independence forever.
John Adams' last public words as a toast for the celebration of the fiftieth anniversary of the Declaration of Independence

The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'Thou shalt not covet' and 'Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.
John Adams, A Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787

Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it, derived from our Maker. But if we had not, our fathers have earned and bought it for us, at the expense of their ease, their estates, their pleasure, and their blood.
John Adams, A Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law, 1765

Democracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few.
John Adams, An Essay on Man's Lust for Power, 1763

Children should be educated and instructed in the principles of freedom.
John Adams, Defense of the Constitutions, 1787

It should be your care, therefore, and mine, to elevate the minds of our children and exalt their courage; to accelerate and animate their industry and activity; to excite in them an habitual contempt of meanness, abhorrence of injustice and inhumanity, and an ambition to excel in every capacity, faculty, and virtue. If we suffer their minds to grovel and creep in infancy, they will grovel all their lives.
John Adams, Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law, 1756

Let the pulpit resound with the doctrine and sentiments of religious liberty. Let us hear of the dignity of man's nature, and the noble rank he holds among the works of God... Let it be known that British liberties are not the grants of princes and parliaments.
John Adams, Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law, 1765

"Yesterday the greatest question was decided... and a greater question perhaps never was nor will be decided among men. A resolution was passed without one dissenting colony, that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states."
John Adams, Letter to his wife, Abigail Adams, July 3, 1776

"Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people . . . . This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution."
John Adams, 1818

"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy."
John Adams

"Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it, derived from our Maker. But if we had not, our fathers have earned and bought it for us, at the expense of their ease, their estates, their pleasure, and their blood."
John Adams, 1765

"Let justice be done though the heavens should fall."
John Adams in a letter in 1777

. . .who have a right, from the frame of their nature, to knowledge, as their great Creator, who does nothing in vain, has given them understandings, and a desire to know; but besides this, they have a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge; I mean, of the characters and conduct of their rulers.
John Adams, Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law, 1765

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams, in Defense of the British Soldiers on trial for the Boston Massacre, 1770

But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever.
John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, 1775

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, 1780

It has ever been my hobby-horse to see rising in America an empire of liberty, and a prospect of two or three hundred millions of freemen, without one noble or one king among them. You say it is impossible. If I should agree with you in this, I would still say, let us try the experiment, and preserve our equality as long as we can.
John Adams, letter to Count Sarsfield, February 3, 1786

Let justice be done though the heavens should fall.
John Adams, letter to Elbridge Gerry, December 5, 1777

Men must be ready, they must pride themselves and be happy to sacrifice their private pleasures, passions and interests, nay, their private friendships and dearest connections, when they stand in competition with the rights of society.
John Adams, letter to Mercy Warren, April 16, 1776

The dons, the bashaws, the grandees, the patricians, the sachems, the nabobs, call them by what names you please, sigh and groan and fret, and sometimes stamp and foam and curse, but all in vain. The decree is gone forth, and it cannot be recalled, that a more equal liberty than has prevailed in other parts of the earth must be established in America.
John Adams, letter to Patrick Henry, June 3, 1776

Objects of the most stupendous magnitude, and measure in which the lives and liberties of millions yet unborn are intimately interested, are now before us. We are in the very midst of a revolution the most complete, unexpected and remarkable of any in the history of nations.
John Adams, letter to William Cushing, June 9, 1776

They define a republic to be a government of laws, and not of men.
John Adams, Nocangul No. 7, 1775

The committee met, discussed the subject, [of the Declaration of Independence] and then appointed Mr. Jefferson and me to make the draught, I suppose because we were the two first on the list. The subcommittee met. Jefferson proposed to me to make the draught. Adams: I will not. Jefferson: You should do it. Adams: Oh! no. Jefferson: Why will you not? You ought to do it. Adams: I will not. Jefferson: Why? Adams: Reasons enough. Jefferson: What can be your reasons? Adams: Reason first -- You are a Virginian, and a Virginian ought to appear at the head of this business. Reason second -- I am obnoxious, suspected and unpopular. You are very much otherwise. Reason third -- You can write ten times better than I can. Jefferson: Well if you are decided, I will do as well as I can. Adams: Very well. When you have drawn it up, we will have a meeting.
John Adams, on the drafting of the Declaration of Independence

If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave.
John Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772

Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty. There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration of virtue. These amiable passions, are the "latent spark" ... If the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling the differences between true and false, right and wrong, virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of mankind apply than to the sense of this difference.
John Adams, the Novanglus, 1775

[J]udges, therefore, should be always men of learning and experience in the laws, of exemplary morals, great patience, calmness, coolness, and attention. Their minds should not be distracted with jarring interests; they should not be dependent upon any man, or body of men.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

[J]udges, therefore, should be always men of learning and experience in the laws, of exemplary morals, great patience, calmness, coolness, and attention. Their minds should not be distracted with jarring interests; they should not be dependent upon any man, or body of men.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

A constitution founded on these principles introduces knowledge among the people, and inspires them with a conscious dignity becoming freemen; a general emulation takes place, which causes good humor, sociability, good manners, and good morals to be general. That elevation of sentiment inspired by such a government, makes the common people brave and enterprising. That ambition which is inspired by it makes them sober, industrious, and frugal.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

As good government is an empire of laws, how shall your laws be made? In a large society, inhabiting an extensive country, it is impossible that the whole should assemble to make laws. The first necessary step, then, is to depute power from the many to a few of the most wise and good.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Each individual of the society has a right to be protected by it in the enjoyment of his life, liberty, and property, according to standing laws. He is obliged, consequently, to contribute his share to the expense of this protection; and to give his personal service, or an equivalent, when necessary. But no part of the property of any individual can, with justice, be taken from him, or applied to public uses, without his own consent, or that of the representative body of the people. In fine, the people of this commonwealth are not controllable by any other laws than those to which their constitutional representative body have given their consent.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

That, as a republic is the best of governments, so that particular arrangements of the powers of society, or, in other words, that form of government which is best contrived to secure an impartial and exact execution of the laws, is the best of republics.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

The dignity and stability of government in all its branches, the morals of the people, and every blessing of society depend so much upon an upright and skillful administration of justice, that the judicial power ought to be distinct from both the legislative and executive, and independent upon both, that so it may be a check upon both, and both should be checks upon that.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Upon this point all speculative politicians will agree, that the happiness of society is the end of government, as all divines and moral philosophers will agree that the happiness of the individual is the end of man. From this principle it will follow that the form of government which communicates ease, comfort, security, or, in one word, happiness, to the greatest numbers of persons, and in the greatest degree, is the best.
John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

I have accepted a seat in the [Massachusetts] House of Representatives, and thereby have consented to my own ruin, to your ruin, and the ruin of our children. I give you this warning, that you may prepare your mind for your fate.
John Adams, to Abigail Adams, 1770



AND IF YOU STOPPED DRINKING THE BEER AND LEARNED ABOUT THE MAN:

Samuel Adams"What a glorious morning for America!"
Samuel Adams, When the first shots were fired at Concord and Lexington, 1776

"Driven from every other corner of the earth, freedom of thought and the right of private judgment in the matters of conscience direct their course to this happy country as the last asylum."
Samuel Adams, Speech, 1776

"A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader."
Samuel Adams, 1779

Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.
Samuel Adams, essay in The Public Advertiser, 1749

No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffusd and Virtue is preservd. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauchd in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 1775

Nothing is more essential to the establishment of manners in a State than that all persons employed in places of power and trust must be men of unexceptionable characters.
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 1775

The public cannot be too curious concerning the characters of public men.
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, 1775

Our unalterable resolution would be to be free. They have attempted to subdue us by force, but God be praised! in vain. Their arts may be more dangerous then their arms. Let us then renounce all treaty with them upon any score but that of total separation, and under God trust our cause to our swords.
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, April 16, 1776

A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.
Samuel Adams, letter to James Warren, February 12, 1779



--------------------------


so to recap.


Those of you who know so little of Liberty, who abide in the Freedoms that you enjoy yet do not Respect, will one day lose their spirit, their lives, their very soul, for not understanding the Enlightenment our forefathers had, and have brought, upon this Great Nation, and the Importance in which we Fight.

You will weep and gnash your teeth when the Enemy steals your Liberty and Freedom because of your Pride and Prejudice.

What will you do when the Thief comes in the Night? Will you stand up and defend your Freedom? Or will you whimper in your Cowardice? Will you ask and demand help from Us? Beware, your cries may fall on deaf ears. Freedom belongs to those who deserve it. Those who deserve it die fighting for what is Right. Not hiding amongst the women, the children, the old and the sick; but out in Front where Everyone can see who and what it is they are Fighting for.

Cowards are those who hide in the cover of the women, the children, the old and the sick. Cowards are those who support them, directly or indirectly (sic: by using their keyboards). They will lose their Lives, for they have already lost their Souls.

- me

And I will stand there, laughing in sadness, when the reality of Reality deals with each of you!

the only thing that the media does however is leave out all the important parts to make its point, for example they show the destruction in lebanon and cry about how it affects tourism and such, well they neglect to mention that travel to Israel is no picnic. their travel is out the window as well, heres the difference Israel is attacking NOT lebanon but the aladin and magic carpet gang namely hetzbolah, the reason lebanon is in this is because they support them. guess what if you aid and abet a criminal you are as guilty as he is and guess what when the police come knocking at your door dont be surprised. thats the case here. HOWEVER hezbolah's reasoning for bombing israel is to kill people, they are not going after military targets, they are not going after government agencies they are going after civilians on purpose to kill so that Israel says ok enough we've lost enough of our people. the magic carpet gang isnt caring about how many people die they just say o look you killed them NO NO NO we didnt kill them YOU killed them because you hide YOUR shit in their houses. but the media neglects to mention a lot of these facts the media shows only what benefits it, so screw that the media doesnt control shit except for narrow minded people who dont know how to look out of the box. do some research talk to some real live people sure not everyone in Israel supports the war much like not everyone here supports the war but guess what the ones that dont support that war were not affected by anything, after 9/11 the civil rights activists decided that what the government was doing with the survailance was wrong and they had no right to do it. if the govt has been allowed to do that same stuff earlier maybe some of this could have been avoided. yes Bush went to iraq for oil but you have to be silly to believe that sadam didnt have weapons capable of blowing Israel to bits and making a serious issue for the USA. just because it wasnt found doesnt mean it doesnt exist or didnt exist, just because it wasnt found in iraq doesnt mean it wasnt transported out doesnt mean it wasnt sold to the binladins and aladins, "A tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it. Does it make a sound?" much like that. go ahead use this msg to rebuttle but make it good

:iagree: my feeling is in this day and age its everyone for themselves get them before they get you and i sure as hell dont want to go down without a fight. iran north korea who ever they be if they pose a threat i say get em. these are countries capable of selling this stuff to be used against us, even if they dont use it someone sure as hell will. not all drug dealers use the drug.

ppps


I have become an expert copy-paster due to the lack of Enlightenment that abounds. Thank you all who have supported my efforts (that have required me to copy-paste to bring them Enlightenment).

That is why all Men and Women are Created Equal. Unfortunately, some of them are more Equal than others, my friends.

Cut and paste expert indeed...damn I can't read that much, attention span isn't quite.......what the hell are we talking about again? Oh yeah, I like the blue that'll be on the new e70. :rofl: ;)

That's funny. All of it. :rofl:

;) must disagree, all men and women are created equal unfortunately not all are gifted with a brain, common sence and the ability to distinguish right from wrong and the ability to filter out the bs and read between the lines :thumbup:

if you read between the lines..........................


that was the whole point.

and although others agree, their reality is painfully obvious.