Is the Next Step a Draft?
 

Hmmmmmm.:dunno:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/..._next_ste.html

Everyone right out of high school or all 18 year-olds should serve a mandatory 2 years in the military. There would be less violent crime, fewer gangs, less drug use and more overall respect from young people in this country. It would teach them responsibility for their actions and how to respect authority. They would know integrity, core values and "service before self". The only exception would be for those who attend college right after high school and maintain a respectable GPA. Then, they would be required to serve 2 years as an officer in the military. Do you realize how happy prospective employers would be knowing they're getting someone with military experience & responsibility?

Damn...The IRR IS like the last resort..These guys got out, some probably over two years ago (I think the IRR window is up to 3 years) and most dont even maintain a uniform or ID card...This IS the last resort before a draft; however, there are a LOT of IRR's out there...Most dont even know they're in it, since its one of those "small print" items on your discharge orders..These guys probably got letters in the mail like, :wtf:

:iagree:

Lam shut up, not everyone wants to do that, some people actually want to go to college, my brother is 18 and like my mom always said "If theres a draft, your moving to Canada no questions asked" I'll just tell em i'm gay!

:rofl: Nice "plan"! LOL...

Everyone should serve...complusary service is standard in many countries.

Not everyone goes to WAR BB, if you have high scores and aptitude you can choose a branch of service that would keep you out of harms way.

Don't forget that freedom is not a right that is not earned in blood. The fact that you were able to marry whom you wanted too and live the lifestyle that you choose to because of who you are internally has been paid in blood by about 7 generations.

Is your freedom perfect? Of course not, no different than me being a person of color....but I am thank for what freedom I do have and the minds that can change with that freedom. I gave back to my country with my service and would do it again. As fucked up as we can be ....there is no other piece of dirt in the world for me other than my USA.

I'm NOT able to marry who I wanted to :)

Not sure your hubby
 

would be to happy about that...you know it was a good point which is why you could only joke...that fact that you could even have a civil union where in another place just 6 or 7 thousand miles away you would be stoned if it were known about your situation...

Believe me...I have an uncle that is not much older than me that is "alternative" he used to live in San Diego until 03 and told me about all the shit that goes on out there with the old coots chasing boy toys and the money and the parties and the carelessness....pretty mind blowing shit going on behind the "SCENE"...being an open minded person...you just say wow and shrug your shoulders. I respect your decision to get hitched to be honest since it lowers your risks.

Yeah but you know I think that kind of stuff happens in both the straight and gay world, its not really as prominant in the straight world because of the higher percentage of straight people but it still exists, I just made the decision to avoid situations like that and focus on what I care about and live my life

:iagree: :thumbup: in most countries I think that would be a fantastic idea. Unfortunatley in the US it means you might end up in a Iraq-type boondoggle.

Still lookin for those weapons of mass destruction..............

Hey blondboisd, you could go to MA to get your marriage license. I am very sure you will be able get same sex marriage done there. Last time i heard about it, the news showed a lot of gay couples in front of MA courthouse waiting for their turns to get marriage license. They were cute, hugging, kissing each others. Well, you are moving to Philly so why not give it a try in MA. SF is not issuing same sex marriage license any more right?

The Draft WON'T Happen
 

Actually it's not. Most people don't realize (and the recruiters sure won't tell), that when you enlist, you sign an EIGHT year contract. Yeah, you may only be active duty for four years, but you're still in the IRR for four after that. If you sign up for six, it's two in the IRR obviously.

It's one of those "buyer beware" deals, because it's in the contract. Most people don't read it, and as I said, the recruiter isn't going to bring it up and spoil a potential "sale."

I also had the "benefit" of being a Camp Lejeune, NC during Desert Storm, the last time they called up the IRR. THAT was a bunch of really happy people! Most of them had dumped all their uniforms, were enrolled in school or had jobs, families, etc. Very touchy...

As for the draft, that'll never happen. First of all, no one in the military wants it. I'm speaking as an 18 year veteran, former drill field and recruiting experienced Marine. The last thing I want is a flood of people that don't want to be here. Blech. I really like the AVF (all-volunteer force). Nothing like working with satisfied customers... :thumbup:

Second of all, no politician really wants their name attached to that Bill. The only ones that have been pushing it have done so strictly for political reasons. The last time the military was getting operating instructions from politicians was called Vietnam, and we all know how well that went.

No they are not, I never agreed with them issuing those licenses anyways (IN SF) yes you can in MA but it is not recognized anywhere else, who cares about the piece of paper, I want the rights that come with it

Hey Ryan, you've really got to start using the "quote" function. It's always a pain to figure out who you're responding to! ;)

Happy now? :)

You suck Ryan! You're willing to enjoy and practice the rights of this country but not willing to do anything for them???

They'll make a special unit just for you guys.

:band:
Rock on dude!

you WANT the rights that come with it but you're not willing to serve your country for those rights??? You suck eh! :)

When you're up in Canada, come down and stop by. I'm not too far away eh!!!

I'm stealing that :P

I know Lam, I can tell by all those "ehs" you keep spitting out :P (That your nearby) And I contribute, I pay taxes like everyone else, how about we send all those non-tax paying illegal immigrants to fight on my behalf

The band thing? It's already in the smileys...

I'm still stealing it!

But first you should start with that piece of paper, then go on to fight for your rights. Otherwise, why have the rights and not being official? I rather take the other route if i were you. I will make if official first, then lets fight for it. Since you really want to live and marry with your special some one why not make it official? Go to MA and get it done there even they are not recognized anywhere else, you still feel safer and happier if you and your fiance officially married and recognized by at least 1 government body, MA in this case. Screw the civil union craps, in the worst case senario you move to MA and live happily ever after at least you feel you are recognized at "one functional family" there. Hey man, MA is not bad at all. Boston is a freaking nice place to live.

Yes but thats not really a realistic way to go about it, I only care about the welfare and financial things to come along with it, and I would never live in Boston, hello I'm an Insurance Broker and they have universal health lol

There is a word and it is called...
 

cowardice

but hey...it is still a choice right now....if it were draft dodging that would be an entirely another aurgument all together....

I have two nephews...both will be either in the Airforce or Coast Guard, still serving thier country but not humping packs to do it, or in a firefight in some back alley in a place we have stayed too long.

The illegal SOB's don't speak English, how could they follow orders???

Please tell your nephews from me "thanks for deciding to serve their country"!

Um duh we get bi-lingual sergeants and thats that, that should be the requirement to enter the country

Roger that....
 

I am proud of both of them...my little 105Lbs female cousin even had the balls to join the Marines...she fell out tho due to stress fractures in her pelvis...she gave the oath tho, no one can take that away...she may try the Airforce or the Navy once she heals....my Dad did two tours in Nam 67-69...Grandpa the Merchant Marines, Great Grandpa served in the Army...I had another cousin that served on the Enterprise before falling out with inoperable brain cancer...that is what we do we serve and my family has earned our way...

teach them 1 word SHOOT. They will shoot the hell out of anything in front of them.
as you say, college entrace age would move to 20. so lets make a poll for all 18 year-old

@ 18 would you want to:
A) join military
B) go to college

and lets see what the kids will say.

Just out of curiosity, did you spend 2 years (4/6 whatever) in the military?

Please pass on my gratitude for their service to your cousins, your dad, grandpa & great grandpa if even through a prayer. You damn right your family has earned their way!

14 active duty years and 9 reserve years for a total of 23 years & still in the AF Reserve. I'm shooting for 30 years and even more and will keep serving until they kick me out!

You really haven't been paying attention, have you? Did you see his avatar?

It's a pic of an X5, that's all I can see.

Actually I was talking to xx3...
He apparently hasn't seen yours.
AF SNCO evening dress, no?

Good point! LOL..It is indeed in the contract..However, I got out after 10 years (2 enl's and a 2 year ext) and "thought" my time was up, until I got a letter from AFRC HQ saying I needed to update my "contact" details..I was like, huh?!?! But youre right...It was on my discharge orders and I never even noticed it! I was in the IRR for three years and didnt have a clue!..:rofl:

Camp LeJeune, huh? I would kill to live there, but cant find any work!! :rant:

Yup! It ain't called the "fine print" because it looks so good! :rofl:

Lambeau: You're in the military, so I'm sure you know this....

There are tens of thousands (I remember reading 30,000) of non-citizen immigrants currently in the armed services and many are in Iraq, and they do have bilingual units for those who do not speak English. If you join the military, they promise you citizenship. Also, there are plenty of Puerto Ricans in the military and they are put in spanish speaking units as well.

Edit: This AP article says 31,000

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/04/05/Wo...light_on.shtml

So we're segregating military personnel based on their liguistic skills (and I'm not talking about linguists/translators)???

Ah, no. There is no such thing as a "spanish speaking unit." Or any other language, for that matter.

I don't doubt the number cited. And it is a much quicker path to full citizenship.

I can't speak for the army but for the Air Force there is a requirement that unless you have a high school diploma you can not enlist in the Air Force. There is a requirement that they speak English as there are no special considerations for non-english speaking AF members. They must speak English because the basic & technical training schools will not include translators. I've been TDY to the Air National Guard unit in Puerto Rico twice and every member of that unit speaks English. It's a requirement for the Air Force & Air National Guard.

Very similar for the Marines. We do allow some that don't have a HS diploma, but they have to have a GED, and even those numbers are small (I can get them if anyone's really interested).

As for language - same/same. You have to speak Engrish to join, and all schools are taught in Engrish. No $$$ (or personnel) for translators here, either.

Hmmm...I disagree with the fineprint problem...when I enlisted in 1990 they were prety frank about the eight years. I think where it falls in the cracks is when you consider it to yourself you think to yourself that you have all those other people infront of me before you call me back. But it was upfront. Everyone knows it is eight years...active and inactive.

If you say so...

Yep..initially almost everyone knows about the 8 year committment..I think its AFTER that 8 years is where it can be a little "less advertised"..There are a few instances where they give you an extra year or two in the IRR.., FY Drawdown programs, High Year Tenure, Hardship Discharges, etc..In other words, if you're getting any dough, or gettin' "hooked up" in some way by getting out, they make sure they get their "time's worth" out of you...:rofl:

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined"
Patrick Henry

"There is no hunting like the hunting of man.
And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never cared for anything else."
E.Hemingway

"AN AMERICAN SOLDIER, NO BETTER FRIEND, NO WORSE ENEMY"

Personally I would rather have those in the military that want to be there. Seems to me there are too many 'liberal' opinions in this country. I personally have worked for the DoD since highschool. I have friends in the military that can't wait to go back to Iraq/combat zones (Also Army friends from Panama, SK and other places people don't talk about). I think a lot of the people you see in the media chanting 'bring our troops home' haven't asked the troops if they want to come back yet. I spoke with a Marine Colonel yesterday that couldn't wait to get re-deployed. To each their own and IMO would rather have people in the forces that want to be there.

I agree with you. Like all the French kids of that time (back 25 years ago) I did my 'military service'. I got into the Air Force as a spoiled kid and left as a man with values and respect for others. Unfortunatly they stopped the mandatory duty few years later and I think that was a big mistake. I happened to do more than my mandatory 18 months by personal choice and then served in the reserve later. I learnt a great deal from this experience.

You're right. Protestors like to make "hay" with stories of people doing 2, 3, or more tours. They forget to mention that a lot of them volunteer to go back.

I think a draft should only be instituted if it is absouletely neccessary for the well being of national security that a large army be immdeiately needed.

Some people are just not cut out for military life-style. Not everyone wants that discipline. Not everyone wants to be submissive to someone because of rank, etc.

If were under attack, so be it. But as things stand today, I would rather let the people who wish to be in armed services serve and those that would rather be artists and teachers and scientists to do those things that that influence them.

There is a lot to be said for serving the country but that doesn't mean that everyone needs to be in uniform, woken at revelee (sp?) and needs to know how to field strip a cigarette.

I know many military and for the most part, there is a very apparent conformity that exists even between people in different branches. This conformity is not for everyone. You might think I need discipline but I don't think I need discipline. And yes, employers might like to hire military people because they are reliable, etc. But not everyone is an employee. Some are the employeers.

In a coutry like Israel, it is the duty of every citizen to protect each other. In a place like the USA, we don't need that level of military (thankfully) and hopefully we never will.

But that's just my opinion.
B

First of all, I thank all for who served our country. It is not possible to deny that you've been a backbone of our country and constitutions of the United States.

I will pick up arms anytime, if my country is in peril and requires my service. So should anyone who enjoys the privileges we enjoy, otherwise you are free to choose to country of your liking, say Canada, to permanently reside and not to return. You cannot pick and choose what you like all the time in life IN MY OPINION.

A draft will have consequences; unavoidably economic inequalities will be reflected on placements and draft-dodging that looks legit. Do you remember a kid who spent his time as a local air force reserve during the Vietnam era?

There are honorable man and woman who will follow their calls; however, there are many are not with resources to circumband the rules.

In order to prevent youngsters pose as "gay" in order to dodge a draft, THROUGH RECTAL EXAM, psychological exam should be conducted. Furthermore, we could be open-minded and build Gay Units that will be self-sufficient than others.

Thanks for your appreciation to those of us who serve. Great points also Jon!!!