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-   -   BMW To Offer Hydrogen Powered Cars (https://xoutpost.com/off-topic/lounge/20100-bmw-offer-hydrogen-powered-cars.html)

X5Jay 09-14-2006 09:15 PM

No mention of fuel cost per mile - besides the green effect, isn't that the point?

Bavarian 09-14-2006 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xx3
Diesel is out of BMW's control. Blame our stupid congress for that...

No-one said the H7 would be fast. Its a step in the right direction, unlike other car companies that can't make hydrogen cars because they are too expensive or unfeasible...

It is indeed a step into the right "eventual" direction. However, for most people even the "regular" petrol-powered 7-Series is already too expensive and unfeasible. Now I wonder how much a 12-pot 7-Series eating special fuel would cost you on TOP of that already expensive "regular" 7...

Don't get me wrong - it is great that BMW is experimenting with alternative fuels. But even if they sell these Hydrogen 7s to the public, they will reach very few people.

Now if they made a Hydrogen powered 3-series, then maybe. I think for now the hybrid solution is our best bet since it's far less expensive than any of the emerging all-electric solutions or hydrogen-based solutions.

JCL 09-15-2006 02:39 AM

I really struggle to get excited about a few demo 7 series that will be loaned out to celebrities. BMW has said that the commercial product is decades away. The technology isn't anything special, we had a liquid hydrogen Hino truck in a demo/show I was involved in organizing 20 years ago this month, at Expo 86. They don't seem to have come very far.

BMW needs to protect their image as an engine company, but why pick on hydrogen running through an IC engine? If you want to promote a hydrogen future, a fuel cell just makes a lot more sense. It doesn't pollute at all at the tailpipe, unlike an IC hydrogen engine which puts out pollution from the combination of the lube oil and the IC process.

xx3 09-15-2006 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bavarian
It is indeed a step into the right "eventual" direction. However, for most people even the "regular" petrol-powered 7-Series is already too expensive and unfeasible. Now I wonder how much a 12-pot 7-Series eating special fuel would cost you on TOP of that already expensive "regular" 7...

Don't get me wrong - it is great that BMW is experimenting with alternative fuels. But even if they sell these Hydrogen 7s to the public, they will reach very few people.

Now if they made a Hydrogen powered 3-series, then maybe. I think for now the hybrid solution is our best bet since it's far less expensive than any of the emerging all-electric solutions or hydrogen-based solutions.

BMW has already stated that the lease price of this fleet of hydrogen 7's will be the same as the 760Li's.

They will reach few people - thats the point. BMW is still experimenting with them. People who plunk down the lease have to go through BMW or special dealers to get them. No-one can purchase one. Also, they have to commit to provide data on a regular basis back to BMW.

The only point of this fleet is to gather data and to make a publicity stunt.

Ok, so you expect BMW to put hydrogen in a 3... Doesn't work for 4 reasons:

#1 - BMW is making a loss on this entire fleet and on each H7 they sell. They can recoup at least part of this cost by selling a more expensive car.

#2 - BMW doesn't want 50,000 hydrogen cars out on the market yet. Since BMW wants to track the progress of each car relatively closely, the high price works for them because it restricts the demand to manageable levels.

#3 - Hydrogen fuel is probably going to be expensive, and few and far between. I doubt many 3 owners would pay a premium just to be clean.

#4 - They are only getting 272hp from a V12 engine. What would they get from an inline 6? Maybe half the power? Around 136 hp? That just downright embarrassing. 272 is enough to get around, but no-one, and i highlight that, no-one is going to pay upwards of $50,000 just to get their hands on a 3 series that slower than its gasoline counterpart (and has a paltry 136 hp !), in the interest of being green...

It works like this with ANY industry. First you sell to the early adopters, get the kinks worked out. Then the price falls and you bring it to the masses.

Hybrids are not a better solution at all. Hybrids pollute more at the end of their life-cycle then regular run of the mill gasoline vehicles. So you save a couple bucks on gas (edit: not even - most hybrids take several years to amortize their high MSRP compared to relative cars of their size), but you end up hurting the planet in the end.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that BMW doesn't want hydrogen in a 3 series. In-fact that is the end result. But expecting them to put it in a 3 series before putting into their higher margin cars is ignorant.

BMW is targeting wealthy philanthropists (of which the bay area happens to many - almost too many). Who will buy the H7 just because it is the latest thing, and makes them feel better about themselves or who think they are making a difference with the planet by spending their money. Either way it brings back the research data to BMW and creates good press - which is all it wanted in the end.


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