This wasn't meant to be a political thread. I hate politics.

You DO hate politics? certainly not what it looks like, for someone who posted this thread in the first place to take the piss out of Citgo, Venezuelans in General, and Chavez.

I'm a 4th-generation Venezuelan living for the last 20 years in Europe; My father was an oil expert for 40 years, 2 Masters, 2 Phd's in Oil economics, and a high-level advisor to most oil ministers in Venezuela and Opec.

my 2.cts-worth:

- Venezuela is a wonderful place with many wonderful people, marred by years of consecutive corrupt governments, the latest of which, has a fookin' madman on top to boot.

- Citgo is just another oil corporation. No different than any other oil company. I hate Bush but that doesn't make me a hater of US public institutions just because Bush is the guy in command !

- I definitely believe Chavez has set Venezuela back many years: I especially hate all of the damage that mad f..k has done to my country since taking power. Only point of admiration I have for him would be for having the Cojones (insanity, in these days?) to be one of the few leaders to speak out against the Bush Administration, which I personally deplore. (I have the highest admiration and respect for the US and its people, but boy your current leader sucks !!)

- In as much as I may dislike Chavez, Eric is quite correct about his statements on Chavez and the coup.

- By the way, I've been to Cuba twice; Cubans are some of the nicest, most cultured, educated people on the planet.

My mom was 7 months pregnant (with me) when they arrived to the US from Cuba. My grandfather was born from a poor farming family, and became a self-made millionaire (and that was in th 40's-50's) through construction, farm development and plain old sweat. He employed many people and I was always told he was a wonderful man to work for. When Castro's regime came into existence, he (and his communist party) flat out took my grandfather's land, construction and personal vehicles, etc.

He did not receive ANY compensation whatsoever, Eric. My Grandfather died in Miami virtually penniless.

Do you really think that communism is a fair way to level the playing field? Is it in any way right to steal what is not rightfully yours for some ideology? What incentive or hope does it give anyone to make a better life for themselves or their families? If it were Bush's philosophy, you would be up in arms, as would I. I am not necessarily a fan of George Bush and everything he has done, but let's not use that as an excuse to make others look better in contrast.

I Fully Agree. Communism, in the manner in which it's "interpreted" by the Castro Regime, has these huge drawbacks, which I for one would never accept to live by.

All valid points.

Something you have to realize though is that most of the valuable land in Cuba (sugar and tabacco fields) was owned by US corporations at the time. In most cases, these corporations acquired this land by bribing corrupt dictators who controlled Cuba during the first half of the 20th century.

Very similarly to what went on in Guatamala with the United Fruit Company, Cuban people were physically removed from their land by the military and the land was given to these American corporations.

So when Castro came in and confiscated all privately owned property, most of the Cuban public viewed this as justice, not a crime. The land was then redistributed to the public. Obviously there were those who were unfairly harmed such as your grandfather who had worked hard for what he had. But you have to realize that he was in the minority.

Today life in Cuba is much much better for most people than under the Bautista dictatorship. If Castro had not come to power, there is no reason that believe that Cuba would be any better off than any of the other Caribbean countries like Haiti, DR, Guatamala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, or even Mexico. But instead, today they lead Latin America in just about every category of "well-being" from education to health care to crime, etc. In fact, they lead the United States in most of those categories as well, which is quite sad I think.

As has been said with regard to the Israeli/Palestinean conflict, what was unfair 47 years ago no longer has a bearing on the current situation. For that matter, someone can argue about the land stolen from the Native Americans here in the United States. I doubt most people would be in favor of returning such land to the families of its original owners. You would simply be committing the same crime all over again. Same goes for the land taken from some Cubans in 1959.

Rock on.

Some people here think Chavez is doing wonders for the poor of Venezuela.

This link seems to indicate otherwise.

Oh Yes, he's doing Wonders allright; he's doing a great job at Exponentially MULTIPLYNG the amount of poor people in Venezuela....